Forum: Dwim's Stories (was Lie Down...)

Discussing: Trust

Trust

Find it here. I've listed the three stories that make "Trust" make sense in the story summary. Otherwise, I draw on pretty much any story that features Andrahar in it, whether billed as slash or not, that fits the timeline. It's probably not essential that you read all of them, but the story will make more sense if you're familiar with them.

 

 

Re: Trust

Oooh hoo hoo... *glee*! I was looking forward to this, and there's nothing quite like shirking work to read fanfic (slash, even! What guilt!) and comment. Should I do the bullets thing? I'll do the bullets thing.
  • The introduction was very well done, I thought. Since I'm not very familiar with your writing, Dwim, it established much of what you conceive Minas Tirith and the Denethor-Boromir-Faramir relationship to be (most of which I'm in agreement; but it was nice to see some departures from my own preconceived notions as well, such as how exposed the three were in terms of how much the Citadel knows of their arguments, etc.). Also, Boromir's unexplained moodiness and the cool tension between he and Denethor establishes a nice undercurrent of... well, tension. (I couldn't think of another word, lol).
  • I hate the dark, he thought. Every man did who knew what moved in it; every man did who had lost friends to the creatures of the darkness. Every man did who lived beneath the shadow of the east, and Boromir had hated the darkness even as a boy. For darkness was the herald of worse things than the mere absence of light. A beautiful passage. Poignant in how fearing the dark is usually a very child-like phobia, but here it becomes a more sinister and realistic threat.
  • Andrahar was no coward to give willingly to Boromir what once had been sold to faceless men, or even taken by force against his will simply because a lad on the streets forfeited all choice. It was little enough that Andrahar demanded of him, taken in light of a dreadful childhood, where to lie beneath another was to lay oneself open to a savaging, to "admit" one's "rightful" place in a society that never allowed one to forget, even in bed, who was master, who was slave. Oh my. Now I've read the first of the Boromir/Andrahar fics, a long while ago, and I don't recall any mention of these details from Andrahar's past. Oh my, the angst. And also the interesting dynamic between the two - so that Boromir should take the submissive role... hmmm. And weaving Boromir's own problems with his mother's death is, dare I say, Freudian (yes, you may throw things at me for that one, lol).
  • It was hardly the season for such conciliar gatherings, nor was it wholly convenient, but then again, surprise attacks were hardly meant to render matters convenient. *snork* Andrahar rocks. I forgot about his snarkiness.
  • At that, Andrahar had snorted, but he had smiled that wolf-white smile of his that all esquires quickly learned to fear. I Andrahar. His characterization is wonderful - an intoxicating (yes! Intoxicating!) mix of snarkiness and bitterness and vulnerability and experience. You've managed to get that across in these little snippets of detail - so that the reader (well, this reader) never really falls into the 'pitying angst' trap, nor the 'snarkily aloof' trap. Rather, he's quite sympathetic. At least, I like him enough to use the icon.
  • The difficulty with having perceptive friends, Andrahar had discovered long ago, was much the same as the difficulty with having perceptive enemies: they tended to perceive precisely what you wished them not to, at just the wrong moment. Hee! The relationship between Imrahil and Andrahar is very well-handled.
  • Nitpick. Probably my only nitpick: "Absolutely," Andrahar agreed, deadpanned. Wouldn't it be 'deadpan'? Blah. End nitpick.
  • Or have they forgotten that that very treaty is what kept us from war when Hurrhabi was sacked? Hurhabbi? Where is Hurhabbi? What is Hurhabbi? Tell me more of Hurhabbi! This isn't necessarily important to the fic - I imagine it's just a cursory mention - but my curiosity was piqued. And I always love to see what people have developed as far as Haradrim culture and such.
  • I lurrrve post-lurrrve scenes, especially if they're done realistically and with sensitivity. Your final scene between Andrahar and Boromir was just lovely - it had that perfect amount of tension between two familiar lovers, when, despite the closeness, gaps may still be found. It's a wonderfully realistic - and thus more poignant - take on things.
OK, end of bullets, back to RL work. Hopefully I'll have time to look through and dissect/gush over the second part. Aeneid

 

 

Re: Trust

Hi Aeneid, Oooh hoo hoo... *glee*! I was looking forward to this, and there's nothing quite like shirking work to read fanfic (slash, even! What guilt!) and comment. LOL. Well, it's been a long day, so I'm glad somebody got to shirk a little and enjoy it. I hope the html works, here. I don't do lists, really, so this may be quite a mess... The introduction was very well done, I thought. Since I'm not very familiar with your writing, Dwim, it established much of what you conceive Minas Tirith and the Denethor-Boromir-Faramir relationship to be (most of which I'm in agreement; but it was nice to see some departures from my own preconceived notions as well, such as how exposed the three were in terms of how much the Citadel knows of their arguments, etc.). Well, since I'm writing in the Isabeau-Altariel universe, it's basically their universe seen through my eyes, although there are some aspects that probably are common among the three of us. [snip]
  • I hate the dark, he thought. Every man did who knew what moved in it; every man did who had lost friends to the creatures of the darkness. Every man did who lived beneath the shadow of the east, and Boromir had hated the darkness even as a boy. For darkness was the herald of worse things than the mere absence of light. A beautiful passage. Poignant in how fearing the dark is usually a very child-like phobia, but here it becomes a more sinister and realistic threat.
Thanks. I needed something to fill in and set up Boromir's mood, and figured this would be appropriate enough.
  • Andrahar was no coward to give willingly to Boromir what once had been sold to faceless men, or even taken by force against his will simply because a lad on the streets forfeited all choice. It was little enough that Andrahar demanded of him, taken in light of a dreadful childhood, where to lie beneath another was to lay oneself open to a savaging, to "admit" one's "rightful" place in a society that never allowed one to forget, even in bed, who was master, who was slave. Oh my. Now I've read the first of the Boromir/Andrahar fics, a long while ago, and I don't recall any mention of these details from Andrahar's past. Oh my, the angst. And also the interesting dynamic between the two - so that Boromir should take the submissive role... hmmm. And weaving Boromir's own problems with his mother's death is, dare I say, Freudian (yes, you may throw things at me for that one, lol).
"Discretion" gives the reader only three pieces of information: that he was a street whore for awhile, that bondage "is nowhere near so enjoyable when it is for real", and that the thought of being in a "submissive" position causes him, even after all these years and much progress, to freeze in a manner that suggests there's more there to uncover than might be thought. In other stories, like "Kin-strife", you get more of a taste of the degradation he felt, that he may have had some really bad customers, and that there is a cultural element in taking the bottom position that makes it not just the bottom but a sign of submission and of being in your proper place, which for Andrahar was "Bastard. Slave. Dirt. Whore. Catamite." All I did was develop that line of thought to its logical extreme, while leaving it at the same time just vague enough that one can wonder about the circumstances. As for Freud, well, the good doctor would have had a field day with Denethor, Finduilas, and the brothers, but certainly there is something going on with Boromir and his mother in all this.
  • At that, Andrahar had snorted, but he had smiled that wolf-white smile of his that all esquires quickly learned to fear. I Andrahar. His characterization is wonderful - an intoxicating (yes! Intoxicating!) mix of snarkiness and bitterness and vulnerability and experience. You've managed to get that across in these little snippets of detail - so that the reader (well, this reader) never really falls into the 'pitying angst' trap, nor the 'snarkily aloof' trap. Rather, he's quite sympathetic. At least, I like him enough to use the icon.
Success, then! Angsty self-pity is not something Andrahar will do for me—just not his personality. Nor can he be snarkily aloof as a general state of being--not given his station in society, and also where he came from.
  • The difficulty with having perceptive friends, Andrahar had discovered long ago, was much the same as the difficulty with having perceptive enemies: they tended to perceive precisely what you wished them not to, at just the wrong moment. Hee! The relationship between Imrahil and Andrahar is very well-handled.
Thanks. I had fun with those two.
  • Nitpick. Probably my only nitpick: "Absolutely," Andrahar agreed, deadpanned. Wouldn't it be 'deadpan'? Blah. End nitpick.
Oops, you're right.
  • Or have they forgotten that that very treaty is what kept us from war when Hurrhabi was sacked? Hurhabbi? Where is Hurhabbi? What is Hurhabbi? Tell me more of Hurhabbi! This isn't necessarily important to the fic - I imagine it's just a cursory mention - but my curiosity was piqued. And I always love to see what people have developed as far as Haradrim culture and such.
Hurrhabi is the name I've given to that point on the map that says "City of the Corsairs". Tolkien didn't provide us with anything, so I had to make it up. If you like fics about Haradrim, "Kin-Strife" has some descriptions of parts of Harad in it, and "Ultimatums" has some more on the cultures there, so you might check those fics for what Isabeau has written about Harad for the Altariel-Isabeau universe. Soledad's "Face of the Enemy" and... there's one other on Andrahar after he arrives in Gondor as a young man also contribute to the Altariel-Isabeau universe. In my own universe, there's "Giving Gifts", "Where the Stars are Strange", "Ides of March", and parts of "Dynasty" and "Star and Stone".
  • I lurrrve post-lurrrve scenes, especially if they're done realistically and with sensitivity. Your final scene between Andrahar and Boromir was just lovely - it had that perfect amount of tension between two familiar lovers, when, despite the closeness, gaps may still be found. It's a wonderfully realistic - and thus more poignant - take on things.
Thanks. That took me quite some time to pull together so that it felt like it might be workable. This would be my one contribution to the subgenre of "why it matters who tops who", and trying to come up with a believable scenario that didn't just read ridiculously, and that actually had not just some sort of nod to psychological realism but also to making it a plot point that mattered in developing this relationship, was fairly difficult. It reminds me why I normally hate making something like this a central element, because it is such a stereotypical slashfic cliché, and the division between too much detail and not enough to satisfy characterization needs is pretty slim. Ok, well, I'm off to find food and catch a movie. Thank God it's Friday. Thanks for commenting, Aeneid! Dwim

 

 

Re: Trust

An excellent story showing the relationship of Boromir and Andrahar as well as Gondorian politics pre war of the Ring. Nice reference to Harad and the incident that led to the sacking of places in the Dol Armoth area. The reminder that actions have unforeseen consequences is good especially when you consider how the Stewart explained the attack on Hurhabbi. The interweaving of the back story about Andrahar's past that affects his present is well written. RiverOtter

 

 

Re: Trust

Hi RiverOtter, Nice reference to Harad and the incident that led to the sacking of places in the Dol Armoth area. The reminder that actions have unforeseen consequences is good Thanks! I always wondered how Gondor got away with a hit like that without suffering immediate retaliation. Having a treaty in place with which to stick it to the Haradrim by ramming their own words down their throats seemed like as good an explanation as any. And I had to give Denethor his moment in the sun. The interweaving of the back story about Andrahar's past that affects his present is well written. I'm glad that came off as realistic enough. Only took a year to get it to work--I am so going to make Isabeau suffer for this, somehow. Must breed nuzgûl with which to afflict her. TTFN, Dwim

 

 

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