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Discussing: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

I've just reread the appendix about Arwen and Aragorn.

So, Arwen chose to stay after the departure of Elrond. That would be why she became mortal.

Now Elrond has been in Middle-earth for a long time. He finally has had enough, makes the gut-wrenching decision to go to Valinor and leave his daughter behind.

This is my question: why does Elrond HAVE to leave right after the destruction of the Rings of Power? Why doesn't he just wait until Arwen is married, Aragorn dies, etc etc. until the whole thing is over. When she doesn't have any more ties to Middle-earth. Then he can leave with her, and everyone is happy.

Elladan and Elrohir stayed. So did Celeborn. Why be so in haste about fifty years if he's already waited so much longer? Elrond obviously has very deep ties with Arwen. Besides, he doesn't have to remain Lord of Imladris if he doesn't want to. He could "retire". It seems such a minor price to pay compared to keeping his daughter, even if he has to see Middle-earth wilt without the Rings' and Elves' influence.

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

This is my question: why does Elrond HAVE to leave right after the destruction of the Rings of Power? Why doesn't he just wait until Arwen is married, Aragorn dies, etc etc. until the whole thing is over. When she doesn't have any more ties to Middle-earth. Then he can leave with her, and everyone is happy.

No, she can't go to Valinor--she has already ceded her right to do so to Frodo.

Regina

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

When the ring of power is destroyed, the power of the ring Elrond wears is also destroyed. The power that kept him vibrant for thousands of years is gone.

You may recall Galadriel saying, when she turned down the One Ring, that she would "diminish." That is what happens to her and Elrond -- the Elven ring bearers, Elrond and Galadriel, diminish.

Think of them as ring of power junkies going into rehab -- i.e. Valinor.

Seriously, though, Elrond has to leave. It is not a matter of choice for him, any more than it is for Frodo or Bilbo.

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

Why doesn't he just wait until Arwen is married, Aragorn dies, etc etc. until the whole thing is over. When she doesn't have any more ties to Middle-earth. Then he can leave with her, and everyone is happy.

In making her choice Arwen is not simply opting to stay in Middle-earth while Aragorn lives. It is much more fundamental. The fates of Elves and Men are different. The Elves are bound to Arda forever (whether in Middle-earth or Valinor) whereas Men only remain a short time. Eru has another purpose for them “beyond the circles of the world.” What this is isn’t really know, especially not by the Elves, and is a matter of faith, I suppose. Arwen has chosen to accept the Gift of Men in the hope of travelling onward with Aragorn after mortal death thus sundering herself from her Elven kin forever.

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

I've wondered about that myself. I think that loosing Vilya was a great blow to him; after being buoyed by its power for millenia, the sudden vacuum would be staggering. Add on to that the sea-longing (my speculation), the desire to see Celebrian again, and the further pain that watching his daughter and foster-son wilt would be, he must have felt he had little option.


,
Elemmire

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

Arwen has chosen to accept the Gift of Men in the hope of travelling onward with Aragorn after mortal death thus sundering herself from her Elven kin forever.

Right. After all, you know how Arwen reacted to Aragorn's death - "nightfall in winter that comes without a star" and all that. Travelling to Valinor wasn't a fix-all, at least not for that sort of grief.

-Aerlinnel

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

Also, a line from the movie (ROTK) I really like is Arwen saying to her father that if she did not choose Aragorn she would regret it 'forever'. It would be forever, as she would spend all eternity with memories of Aragorn that would never diminish, and I think there would be so much more pain in that than joy.

Is there an exact moment when Arwen's fate becomes that of a mortal? I've never been able to work it out, it could be when she pledges her troth to Aragorn, or marries him, or when her father leaves (although unlikely as the twins do not become mortal at that point) or it could be when she gives her passage on the ship to Frodo.

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

Perhaps the consummation of their marriage. After all, that was what was the marriage in the view of the Eldar, and I've always thought that it would be when she bound herself fully to Aragorn that she surrendered her immortality.

-Aerlinnel

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

How stupid of me to miss one of the most obvious choices.
When Arwen's fate becomes that of a mortal her connection to Arda would diminish (I think), but to what extent and would she cease to hear the Song? And would her senses become mortal, the same, or just lessen slightly? That would be an interesting thing to happen in the middle of consummating their marriage....

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

How stupid of me to miss one of the most obvious choices.
When Arwen's fate becomes that of a mortal her connection to Arda would diminish (I think), but to what extent, would she cease to her the Song? And would her senses become mortal, the same, or just lessen slightly? That would be an interesting thing to happen in the middle of consummating their marriage....


Two quick story recommends, off the top of my head, along these lines - both of them beautiful.

Sara-lisse - Bittersweet by Erin's Daughter (rated adult for explicit het)

Aubade by Stultiloquentia. This is a short beta WIP rated PG for the moment.

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

According to the appendix of LOTR that describes Aragorn and Arwen in detail, Arwen does not "taste the full bitterness" until she has lost all that she has gained; i.e. after Aragorn dies. So it seems she retains all of the attributes of a Half-elf until after his death. Once she has bound herself to Aragorn, she is definitely mortal, but the other physical and spiritual attributes of an Elf seem to stay with her.

 

 

Re: Of Arwen's Choice and Elrond

she retains all of the attributes of a Half-elf until after his death.

I don't think this is necessarily so. What Appendix A says is that "When the Great Ring was unmade and the Three were shorn of their power, then Elrond grew weary at last and forsook Middle-earth, never to return. But Arwen became as a mortal woman..." The bitterness that she tastes is the bitterness of being and loving a mortal - that that mortal (Aragorn) can and will die eventually.

-Aerlinnel

 

 

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