Henneth Annûn Story Archive

I'm about to start writing a one-shot fic for the "Sweet Child of Mine" nuzgul. The problem is, I don't really have that much information on the mother's of Uruk-hai. Does Tolkien discuss this at all?

 

Can I piggy-back on this question? I am also researching when Saruman began using Orcs and breeding Uruk-hai. I know there is a date given somewhere, and I am going slightly bonkers trying to find it. I do have a note from Appx. A that Saruman was harassing the Rohirrim as early as 2954 - "It was soon after Thengel's return that Saruman declared himself Lord of Isengard and began to give trouble to Rohan, encroaching on its borders and supporting its enemies." But I recall that he did not begin producing Orcs in earnest until relatively shortly before the Ring War. Toodles - Ang

 

But I recall that he did not begin producing Orcs in earnest until relatively shortly before the Ring War.

Ang, I'm still looking for info for both you and Rainsong, but I came across this in LotR's appendicies re: The House of Eorl:

[Théodwyn's] son Éomer was born in 2991, and her daughter Éowyn in 2995. At that time Sauron had arisen again, and the shadow of Mordor reached out to Rohan. Orcs began to raid in the eastern regions and slay or steal horses. Others also came down from the Misty Mountains, many being great uruks in the service of Saruman, though it was long before that was suspected*…

*emphasis mine Is this the quote you were thinking of? I suppose that could fit the definition of "shortly before the Ring War" - in the history of M-e twenty-odd years would be a mere heartbeat. At any rate, that's the first mention I've seen of uruks in Saruman's service, though it doesn't specify whether these were uruks he'd bred himself or not. I'll keep looking. Meanwhile, I hope this helps. ~Nessime

 

Thanks for the info! It helped a lot.

 

I know that quote, and that helps me figure out a general timeframe, but I am certain there was a specific date that says Saruman began developing his Uruk-hai around X time. I thought it was in the Appendices. I have also been reading the section in UT (finding much fascinating stuff on pre-Rohirric Calenardhon) in case that is where it appeared, but haven't had much luck. Overall, what I'm trying to figure out is whether Saruman would have been trying his biological experiments as early as 2975. He was using orcs against the Rohirrim before he got the idea of raising specialized Uruks of his own, and I'm trying to determine as closely as I can when the shift occured. Ang

 

This pair of quotes from UT tie in neatly with the quote from the appendicies:

Owing to Saruman's jealousy and hatred of Gandalf he ceased to cooperate with the Council, which last met in 2953. Without any formal declaration Saruman then seized Isengard as his own domain and paid no further attention to Gondor. The Council no doubt disapproved of this; but Saruman was a free agent, and had the right, if he wished, to act independently according to his own policy in the resistance to Sauron. (7) (7) ...The Council seems to have been unaware, since for many years Isengard had been closely guarded, of what went on within its Ring. The use, and possibly special breeding, of Orcs was kept secret, and cannot have begun much before 2990 at earliest. The Orc-troops seem never to have been used beyond the territory of Isengard before the attack on Rohan. Had the Council known of this they would, of course, at once have realized that Saruman had become evil. [Author's note.] (UT: The Palantíri)

If I come up with anything else that seems pertinent, I'll pass it along. Am still looking for direct references to the uruks' parentage, especially on the maternal side. ~Nessime

 

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