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Discussing: Brothels

Brothels

Where would a brothel be found in Minas Tirith? I imagine they would likely be located in alehouses of some kind, but is there a specific circle of the city where they might be found? One of the lower ones perhaps?

 

 

Re: Brothels

I think it would depend on the type of brothel. Those tat are patronized by soldiers would probably be near their barracks. Those patronized by a higher class [merchants, low level nobles and so forth] might be in a better part of the city. The type of entertainment offered would differ with the clients. Soldiers would not be interested in fine furnishings or lavish entertainment or rare wines or exquisitve food. RiverOtter

 

 

Re: Brothels

I think it would depend on the type of brothel. Those that are patronized by soldiers would probably be near their barracks. Those patronized by a higher class [merchants, low level nobles and so forth] might be in a better part of the city. The type of entertainment offered would differ with the clients I'd think there would be some sort of brothel on every level because of that very thing. The lower levels would probably be rather scary -- er, overt, cheap in terms of money, and common. I'd also think that the ones for the higher classes would be almost impossible to peg as a brothel from the outside or even the inside. Now you've got me really curious as to why you want to know. Let the wild speculation begin!

 

 

Re: Brothels

Thanks, RiverOtter and EdorasLass! I think I'm going to disappoint. Nothing too wild and crazy, I'm afraid. I was trying to figure out where the, um, cheaper services might be found, but info concerning the higher-class ones is very useful too. So if I put the soldier's barracks (and brothels) in the second circle, I won't get hatemail from Tolkien smitties? And say, the fifth circle for the more expensive brothels? Plus, I guess there would be courtesans and such, but they would have private homes, I would think.

 

 

Re: Brothels

I think I'm going to disappoint. Nothing too wild and crazy, I'm afraid Oh, you know me. I'm hoping for something traumatic that will lead to distrust between this person and the other one, which will have to be worked out in a terribly angsty fashion. Or maybe that can't be worked out at all. So if I put the soldier's barracks (and brothels) in the second circle, I won't get hatemail from Tolkien smitties? And say, the fifth circle for the more expensive brothels? If you can wait til I get home from work tonight (around 10 pm American Central Standard time), I have an awesome map of Minas Tirith that has the barracks listed on it. I just can't remember right off where the barracks are. If someone beats me to it, though, that's cool. I've just realised, though, that I don't know what a "smitty" is.

 

 

Re: Brothels

Ooooh, maps! I can definitely wait. Back when I was a subscriber to Sassy magazine, they listed "smitty" as a person who is extremly picky -- to the point of obsession -- about "getting things right" in terms of grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. I guess it's short for "wordsmith" or something. But I use it as a more all-purpose term. Now I'm beginning to wonder where the brothels would be in Rohan... Oh, you know me. I'm hoping for something traumatic that will lead to distrust between this person and the other one, which will have to be worked out in a terribly angsty fashion. Or maybe that can't be worked out at all. Evil...Nuzgul...noooooooo!

 

 

Re: Brothels

Now I'm beginning to wonder where the brothels would be in Rohan. Well, certainly not in my house! What would make you suggest such a thing? That one is a little tougher - there doesn't seem to be a clear division of ghetto vs nice part of town in Edoras/Rohan like there is in Minas Tirith. Evil...Nuzgul...noooooooo!

 

 

Re: Brothels

This is something I dealt with in my story "Summer Nights", so it's something I've dealt with a fair amount. This is all fanon, of course. I think in Minas Tirith there would be brothels that are *just* brothels. Not an extra service attached to a pub, or something like that. The city's big enough that you wouldn't have to worry about bumping into someone you know on the way there. Not that you're asking, but I *do* envision this kind of set-up (brothels attached to pubs) in Dol Amroth and smaller towns. Brothels as their own institutions would cut down on confusion in a big city like Minas Tirith, but you'd need brothels to have some "legitimate" function in smaller towns, for decency's sake. I don't know that they'd be limited to a lower circle. If the prostitutes kept clean, a nobleman could take his sons to a prostitute who only serviced other noblemen's sons, with the understanding that they wouldn't sleep with anyone but the prostitutes. If the prostitutes only had intimate contact with noblemen who only had intimate contact with prostitutes, neither of them would get STD's to pass on to others. And there wouldn't be the concern of Boromir getting his chambermaid pregnant. Another problem with having them in the lower circle: it would make it very obvious why you were going to the lower circles at night. I think it's more likely that you have courtesans in the Fourth or Fifth circle that were for noblemen and military officers, and another set of brothels for craftsmen, peasants, and enlisted men in the lower circles (probably first circle). Each would occupy their own neighbourhood; the upper-class brothels would probably provide other services too, such as a nice meal, maybe massages or anything else you might want. They would certainly cost more but would be more classy as well, and you could expect courtesans to exercise more discretion. Marta

 

 

Re: Brothels

Ok, my handy-dandy, unbelievably pretty map by Daniel Reeve has barracks marked on the second circle, at the end of the street/lane/ whatever right next to what looks like a tunnel leading through the front (the east part, where the helicopter pad sticks out) of the mountain to the other side. So if you were standing at the city gates, the barracks would be to your right up on the 2nd level. It also shows crafts and bakeries on the same side (south 2nd) as the barracks, and on north 2nd, it shows a lower armory and a street of scribes. The first level is marked as south markets, wheelwrights, lampwrights, coopers and tanners on the south side of the helicopter pad, and fletchers, bowyers, north markets, forges, blacksmiths, and swordsmiths on the north side. There are various little unmarked buildings on both sides of both levels, which could easily be pubs and/or brothels. The third level isn't specifically marked with anything commercial, so it may be a safe bet to assume that it's mainly residential. If anyone wants like info, this set also came with a map of a (the?) harbour at Umbar, Edoras, Helm's Deep, Riverdell, and Isengard. The Isengard one isn't that detailed, and the Umbar one is more a layout of the town than anything. These are maps for the LOTR RPG, and with the helicopter pad, I'd suspect they're based on movie sets, so clearly it's not 100% canon, but they're really, really pretty. Really pretty. Have I mentioned what a dork I am for maps? And I just learned a new word, too! "Bowyers"!

 

 

Re: Brothels

I think it's more likely that you have courtesans in the Fourth or Fifth circle that were for noblemen and military officers, and another set of brothels for craftsmen, peasants, and enlisted men in the lower circles (probably first circle). I think I'd probably have to change my mind somewhat and agree -- it would make sense to have brothels for different social/economic classes separated like that. And there wouldn't be the concern of Boromir getting his chambermaid pregnant. I don't know why that struck me as funny, but Diet Coke nearly came out of my nose.

 

 

Re: Brothels

And there wouldn't be the concern of Boromir getting his chambermaid pregnant. I don't know why that struck me as funny, but Diet Coke nearly came out of my nose. I feel bad that I keep SSP'ing my own stuff, but this is actually a very serious part of my story "Summer Nights". The main focus of that story is Faramir's internal struggle whether to visit a brothel in Dol Amroth, but the Boromir-gets-a-maid-pregnant idea is a subplot Yes, I actually wrote that into a series fic. Marta

 

 

Re: Brothels

I went to check it out after you SSPed yourself and realized that I had read it, and quite liked it! But I shall comment on your board.

 

 

Re: Brothels

It also shows crafts and bakeries on the same side (south 2nd) as the barracks... Cool. Boromir can pick up a croissant before putting in a long night of naughtiness. Thanks for the help though! I wish I had those maps...

 

 

Re: Brothels

I wish I had those maps... Ditto. EdorasLass, would you e-mail me the aforementioned map(s)? My address is elanialstar@yahoo.com I'll stick it/them in my photobucket account, and link it here, so people can see what you're talking about. (And I also just want that map, dammit: it sounds so interesting!) Allie

 

 

Re: Brothels

Ditto. EdorasLass, would you e-mail me the aforementioned map(s)? My address is elanialstar@yahoo.com I've got to find some place to scan them first. I'll also do a websearch to see if they're available on-line, which might be quicker, as no-one I know has a scanner. Unless there's a copy place that'll do that for me.

 

 

Re: Brothels

Unless there's a copy place that'll do that for me. EdorasLass, I thnk most copy places do that. At least around here they do; I know Kinko's will. Another option is to send the original or a photycopy (by poastal mail) to someone who has a scanner, and they could scan it to you. (I'm not volunteering since I don't have a scanner either.) Marta

 

 

Re: Brothels

I thnk most copy places do that. At least around here they do; I know Kinko's will. Oh, good -- we have Kinko's all over the place. That should be workable.

 

 

Re: Brothels

I seem to remember a description in WW2 of a small-town brothel in Italy that the autobiographist enters by accident that's almost indistiguishable from a tavanna until you realise that it's a cross between that and a sort of 'waiting room'. For this reason I really liked the description of the 'Silver Fox' in Summer Nights. (Though much eye-rolling at Boromir managing to guilt his brother into not scorning it. Men, eh?) The idea that if one must have hormonal impulses there are 'clean' girls to help you through that sort of thing... There's a character in Aphra Benn's Naples-set play (pretty close to where the WW2 story takes place, come to that!) The Rover called Angelica Bianca, who used to be a 'kept woman' and, since her employer died, has become a freelance courteasen, renting herself out for four nights a week, for some fairly astronomical sum every month (a thousand crowns, I think); and every evening her servants hang a huge portrait of her on her balcony, lit by torches, to advertise. However, though, however much I favour a sort of 'Roman' Minas Tirith, I don't think the English Restoration period is really suitable to draw on... (mind you, they have a 'restoration'- though not of a notorious liberteen king!)

 

 

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