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Discussing: 1. Haradrim & 2. Pony tails!

1. Haradrim & 2. Pony tails!

1. Are Southrons and Haradrim the same thing?
 If yes:
 1a. Is this a case of all Haradrim are Southrons, but not all Southrons are Haradrim?

On to #2!

2. Some time ago, I had a question about the black horse-tails on some of the Riders in the movies, and as I recall, we came to the conclusion that,  yes, the horse-tails were used to indicate rank. (in the movies)

 NOW - we are all well aware that Eomer has a big long beautiful horsetail on his helmet, in canon and in film. If indeed the helmet ponytail is to indicate rank, is it therefore safe to assume that Theodred, as Second Marshal,  had a helmet ponytail as well?  Should I further assume that his would be white as well, or should the colour not matter, since in the books, the Third Marshal is the only character specifically stated to have a tail on his helmet? 

The story in question has lots of canon and bits of movie, so I have no strong feelings about which 'verse to use, in terms of clothing.

Thank you!

 

 

Re: 1. Haradrim & 2. Pony tails!

Hi Edoraslass!

1. Are Southrons and Haradrim the same thing?
If yes:
1a. Is this a case of all Haradrim are Southrons, but not all Southrons are Haradrim?

"But the Men of Rhûn and of Harad, Easterling and Southron, saw the ruin of their war and the great majesty and glory of the Captains of the West. And those that were deepest and longest in evil servitude, hating the West, and yet were men proud and bold, in their turn now gathered themselves for a last stand of desperate battle."

The Return of the King, LoTR Book 6, Ch 4, The Field of Cormallen

(Sorry, I couldn't resist the links -- just finished all the events for the Battle of the Morannon, and am working on the ones related to the Destruction of the One Ring....)

According to the Index of Unfinished Tales, Rhûn means 'East', and Harad means 'South', so I believe that Haradrim means the same as Southron.

I know from research that the term Easterling refers to any of a number of different tribes lumped together in the minds of the Gondorians, and I suspect that Haradrim also refers to a collection of tribes that happen to come from somewhere vaguely south of Gondor.

Hope this helps!

- Barbara

P.S. As you know there is no mention of horse-tails for anyone except Éomer in canon; frankly, I think you can write whatever you want, as long as you don't change the color or existence of Éomer's tail..... I very much like Éomer's tail as is.... ;)

 

 

Re: 1. Haradrim & 2. Pony tails!

According to the Index of Unfinished Tales, Rhûn means 'East', and Harad means 'South', so I believe that Haradrim means the same as Southron.
Score! I'd referred to a Haradric man as a "Southron", and then got to thinking, "What if I'm wrong and they're totally different?!"

I very much like Éomer's tail as is.... ;)
Yes, it's quite nice, isn't it? 

Thanks, Barbara!

 

 

Re: 1. Haradrim & 2. Pony tails!

Also, the adjectival form is "haradren" (from the Etymologies in HoME Vol V).

 

 

Re: 1. Haradrim & 2. Pony tails!

You mean "adjectival" in the sense that Haradren would be applied to something made by the Haradrim?  Like a blanket or pot or something? Excellent, I didn't know that -- I'll have to remember it for future use. Thanks!

 

 

Re: 1. Haradrim & 2. Pony tails!

Yes. It just means "southern".

 

 

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