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Discussing: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

Kids,

Does anyone know if JRRT described a banner or standard for the Kings of Numenor? Did he have one for Ar-Pharazon in particular?

Enquiring minds want to know. Or at least *I* do! ;-)

Ang 

 

 

Re: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

Hi Ang!

There is an entry for Banner of the Kings of Númenor in the Resource Library... here's all I could find about the subject:

In that time the fleets of the Númenóreans darkened the sea upon the west of the land, and they were like an archipelago of a thousand isles; their masts were as a forest upon the mountains, and their sails like a brooding cloud; and their banners were golden and black. And all things waited upon the word of Ar-Pharazôn....

The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

Hope this helps!

- Barbara

 

 

Re: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

Hmm, golden and black. (And, duh, I should have known you would have covered that topic in the research library. You have just about everything there.) That leaves the exact image/mark itself up for grabs, doesn't it? So, what would be proper symbology for them, particularly Pharazon?

Given that he had just torched Nimloth, I doubt it was the White Tree. What about a many-rayed star, given the descent from Earendil and having followed a star to reach Numenor? Anyone have an objection to that? 

Ang 

 

 

Re: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

(And, duh, I should have known you would have covered that topic in the research library. You have just about everything there.)

Not everything.......................... not yet.....

*Musssst add more, Preciousssss, mussssst add more....*

Hmm, golden and black. ... That leaves the exact image/mark itself up for grabs, doesn't it?

Yup! Tolkien can be soooo maddeningly vague at times....

Given that he had just torched Nimloth, I doubt it was the White Tree. What about a many-rayed star, given the descent from Earendil and having followed a star to reach Numenor? Anyone have an objection to that?

No objection here.... I think it's a great idea! Added: Not only for the reason you said, but also because Númenor itself is shaped like a star....

- Barbara

 

 

Re: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

Ah, that was what I was trying to remember (I knew the star connection was big). All right, then, Ang declares that the standard of the Kings of Numenor was a golden star on a black field. Pure fanon, so disregard as desired.

Thanks Barbara!

Ang 

 

 

Re: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

While we're at it... What about the heraldic symbol / banner for Ithilien? There's nothing in the Trilogy on it (that I know of). Anyone know of some fanon that I can shamelessly steal?

If left to my own devices (no pun intended), I was thinking a full moon over a fountain, but that seems a bit complex for a princedom (compare to Rohan's horse or Dol Amroth's swan and ship). Any help here would be greatly appreciated!

 

 

Re: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

Possibilities:

Modified tree and a crescent moon. You could use a stylised version of some tree common in Ithilien, rather than the White Tree. Or just the tree by itself.

White Horse and crescent moon - I assume here that you are talking about a device for Ithilien once it becomes Faramir's realm. I do not think that it would be out of character for him to honour his wife in this way.

Stylised athelas leaf

Tree and tower (to stand for Emyn Arnen)

I suggest a crescent moon simply because I find a crescent  more easily identifiable as signifiying the moon.

 

 

Re: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

In the epilogue for my WiP "The Heart of a Knight", (the epilogue is of course not yet published), I write that Bergil is wearing a tunic with the "moon and stars of Ithilien".

I am thinking about a crescent moon (for the same reasons Anna mentions edited to add and because of the shape of the land) and the three stars from the seal of the Stewards mentioned in UT.

What I have not resolved yet is the layout and the colours.

White - for White Company and the White of the Banner of the Stewards.
And probably green - in honour of the "Garden of Gondor" and perhaps also of the home of its Lady?

If you like the image, feel free to use it!

Imhiriel

 

 

Re: Standard or banner of kings of Numenor

While we're at it... What about the heraldic symbol / banner for Ithilien?

I haven't found anything in canon for Ithilien, either, but I heartily agree with using a moon as at least part of the device, since Ithilien means Moon-land. And I, too, believe that a crescent moon is more immediately recognizable at a glance in heraldry.

- Barbara

 

 

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