Henneth Annûn Story Archive

Since I came up with the notion, I guess I ought to get the ball rolling in here.

As described in the February challenges bulletin:

"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a Dunadan in possession of a broken sword and with a Kingdom to reclaim must be in want of a wife."

The claim has been made by some literary critics that Tolkien's fans are not familiar with "great literature," those books high school literature teachers think worthy of their student's attention. The time has come to prove these critics wrong.

The challenge: retell one of Tolkien's stories in the style of a classic author. These works do not need to mimic exact quotes from the original author (such as the opening line of this challenge description), but the overall style should be similar.

I could see me doing either the "Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" in the style of Jane Austen (yep, it was me who came up with that pastiched quote from "Pride and Prejudice") or The Council of Elrond scene recast as George Orwell's "Animal Farm".

Any other takers?

 

I am very, very interested in your challenge, but I have a question regarding the "story" to be retold. Does this have to be a specific event, rewritten in the same order and in the same context as it appears in the book? Or can we take an event and write about the reactions of different characters to it or expand a little upon an event from the book? For instance, I was thinking of writing a story in the style of Bram Stoker's "Dracula", told completely through letters - but to do this I think I would need to base it upon characters in different locations, writing about their reaction to an event such as the emergence of the Nine from Minas Morgul, or the approach of war to Minas Tirith - not reactions specifically described by Tolkien, and not situations as whole and "stand alone", so to speak, as the Council of Elrond. Would this be acceptable?

 

Lanthiriel, your idea sounds exactly like the sort of fic I was looking for! I would really love to see this.

It certainly doesn't have to be a specific event from the books written in the same order - I came up with those two ideas because I lacked the imagination you have shown to apply a particular writer's style to Middle-earth in a more creative way!

I guess at its most basic, the idea is simply to write a fic that is recognisably about Tolkien's universe, but to do so in the style of another "classic" author?

Liz (hoping Dwim and Marta can help her out here!)

 

I guess at its most basic, the idea is simply to write a fic that is recognisably about Tolkien's universe, but to do so in the style of another "classic" author?

That was what I understood. So long as the story isn't such that we begin thinking we are actually reading Bram's Stoker's "Dracula" rather than a tale of Middle-earth in a Stokeresque style, I should think that would be fine. It's not a crossover, it's simply an effort to write Middle-earth as Stoker would've written it, had he been writing Tolkien fanfiction. I think my brain hurts now.

 

If this challenge does go anywhere...I claim the poor depressed Danish Prince of Ithilien.

 

And I must weigh in.

I am seriously tempted to do the forging of the conspiracy of Merry, Sam, Fatty, and Pippin a la Tom Sawyer. To remind you guys there's a part of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (or is it Huck Finn? *shrugs*) where Huck runs away from the Widow Douglas, and Tom convinces him to go back because Tom is forming a pirate's club with several other neighbourhood boys and Huck can only join if he goes back.

I digress. Just imagine everyone's favourite Professor's perfect English hobbits done in southern midwest accents. Do I detect the sound of turning in graves?

Perhaps. But provided the deadline isn't too soon (as in this Age of the earth), I'm in.

Marta

edit: Duh. Frodo was not in on said conspiracy. He has been changed to Merry, the fourth participant and author of the conspiracy. [wonks self with Dunedain-sized pipe]

 

Hmm ... Purely as a matter of interest, you understand, am I right in assuming this challenge would be prose only?

Alawa

 

Hmm ... Purely as a matter of interest, you understand, am I right in assuming this challenge would be prose only?

Oh no, I think poetry is perfectly possible and accepable (especially, when I was looking for something else yesterday and accidentally came across a piece written in the style of Longfellow's Hiawatha).

Cheers, Liz

 

I love the idea, and as Marta says, if the deadline isn't before March-end, I'd try to weigh in. The possibilities are limitless - oh, to pull a Steinbeck on the Numenoreans! A Puzo on the Feanorians! A Dr. Seuss on...

*ducks*

P.S. There's a very promising Silmfic on the lines of Gone with the Wind by Squirrel on the Edge in the works - I think it's called 'Of Elven Gentlemen and Jewel Wars'. I don't think she's awareof the discussion, but I suppose she'd want in on the challenge?

 

if the deadline isn't before March-end, I'd try to weigh in.

Is that five? Liz, Lindorien, Lanthiriel, Earmire, and myself?

Marta

 

Lanthiriel, your idea sounds exactly like the sort of fic I was looking for! I would really love to see this.

Then count me in! Many thanks for the clarification. Now I must go consult Stoker's novel and use it to beat my creativity into submission.

 

Looks like it.

But I too want a very long deadline on this one, since this is not by any means the current nuzgul for me (or even the next nuzgul but one as far as I can see).

Eamire, I've not had a chance to look at Squirrel on the Edge's fic but if you think it would be relevant, would you mind directing her to this thread?

Cheers, Liz

(And Marta, I just can't wait to see the hobbits rendered in southern midwest accents....)

 

Oh no, I think poetry is perfectly possible and accepable (especially, when I was looking for something else yesterday and accidentally came across a piece written in the style of Longfellow's Hiawatha).

In which case, Dwim's The Hamster would certainly qualify.

 

The challenge: retell one of Tolkien's stories in the style of a classic author.

Hmm ... then there's the question of what exactly consititutes a "classic" author

Alawa
(ducking and running)

 

Hmm ... then there's the question of what exactly consititutes a "classic" author

according to my kids Dr. Seuss classifies as a 'classic author'.

'Quoth the hobbit -- nevermore'

so does Poe.

As does Shel Silverstein

Hmmm...Tolkien ala Hamlet ala Dr. Seuss.

I could end up in seriously deep doo-doo over this one.

must think must think must think must think

The Tale of the Walking Tree as told by Sam's cousin, Halfast, in the style of Dr. Seuss.

Hey! Faramir! Yeah! I mean you! Let me introduce you to the finer points of the rhyming couplet.

Couplet.
Couplet.
NOT COUPLE!

Boromir and Faramir. Sheesh! Why didn't he just give you a third brother and call you Huey, Dooey and Louie?

oi vey.

Lindorien

 

In which case, Dwim's The Hamster would certainly qualify.

As would a few others. Didn't someone write a Gilbert and Sullivan ditty a few weeks back?

Speaking of, for your reading pleasure, the following was recently posted to another list. Reposted with permission.

I am the very model of the modern heir of Elendil
I aid the bearer of the ring who's really not an Underhil
I woo the elven damsel and
The army incorporeal,
I am the very model of the modern heir of Elendil

If that doesn't get the creative juices flowing, not sure what will.

Marta

 

Hmm ... then there's the question of what exactly consititutes a "classic" author

Maybe we should ask for a list from that nice British theatre director Mr Richard Eyre who wrote such a lovely article in The Guardian (British newspaper) insisting (amongst many other ad hominen attacks) that people who like Tolkien don't like real literature which has "the authority of true intelligence, an insistent, stubborn desire to examine lived experience, to provide a moral frame for it rather than take refuge in a maze of whimsical fantasy."

Which kind of inspired me to suggest this in the first place...

I think we should cast the net fairly widely, since the aim of the challenge is either to showcase your immense writing talents in being able to expertly replicate a well-known author's voice - or to simply make us all laugh out loud.

 

The challenge: retell one of Tolkien's stories in the style of a classic author.

Hmm ... then there's the question of what exactly consititutes a "classic" author

I wrote that bit at about five minutes to midnight, trying to put the finishing touches on the Challenges Bulletin. If "modern" bothers people, then feel free to reword it. I won't complain. Heck, if someone wants to do the Barrows in the style of Stephen King, I'd be happy to include it.

(That said, I've already done my Barrow re-dramatization, mine in the style of a hobbit ghost story, and it was hard enough. Won't be volunteering for that story idea.)

Marta

 

I really liked Dwim's summation of the challenge as: "if a well-known author had written Tolkien fanfic..."

And the Gilbert and Sullivan was Lindorien with "Captain of Ithilien" andf Flick and Fileg with the papers from the abandoned operetta "The Corsairs of Umbar".

Which, if I can correctly remember back into the haze of all of two weeks ago, were both also inspirations for this challenge.

 

Re: deadlines, I usually quite selfishly push for long deadlines, especially when I see my future stretching out into an endless series of paper-writing exercises.

May 1? May 15? Have we got a definitive text yet?

Think we can pull off imitating great writers writing Tolkien fanfiction by then?

And I'll steal this moment to plug another bookish Challenge: Great Books of M-e. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, can be found in the Open Challenges Archive. Depending on how you choose to do this, you could possibly manage to kill two birds with one stone.

 

Re: deadlines, I usually quite selfishly push for long deadlines, especially when I see my future stretching out into an endless series of paper-writing exercises.

May 1? May 15? Have we got a definitive text yet?

I vote May 15, but that's for a reason that won't be a bother for anyone else: I'll have just finished the monthly Challenges Bulletin, which is very similar to fanic in many regards (fan-tech writing, perhaps?). The concept of having to finish a piece in that same time period is none too appealing, though, like I said this reason only applies to me.

Think we can pull off imitating great writers writing Tolkien fanfiction by then?

How hard could it be? We're all already textual poachers in one genre, now it's time to just change the style a bit. Simple, right? :roflol

And I'll steal this moment to plug another bookish Challenge: Great Books of M-e. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, can be found in the Open Challenges Archive. Depending on how you choose to do this, you could possibly manage to kill two birds with one stone.

Oh, there could be a challenge (hence the name, I suppose).

Dwim, I will work on a potential challenge summary and post it to this thread tomorrow evening (unfortunately I promised my differential equations prof I'd drop by with some completed practice sets to go over with him, from when I had to miss class because of ice and broken knee.)

Marta

 

I think we should cast the net fairly widely, since the aim of the challenge is either to showcase your immense writing talents in being able to expertly replicate a well-known author's voice - or to simply make us all laugh out loud.

Ah...thank you. I was wondering about that too.

Oh, and I think, then you'll find A. L. Milton's A Tale of Two Kitties fits into the challenge.

 

Liz, have you claimed Jane Austen? Or may I? It's just, I fell in love with the quote you gave at the beginning about "being in want of a wife"

If you have already claimed /begun Jane Austen, no worries. I'm just a mooch, is all

Why am I doing this? What makes me think I'll have time???

 

Hi Ti

if you want to do Jane Austen, you're more than welcome - I hadn't got much beyond a bit of idle "casting" to equate various Tolkien characters with various Jane Austen ones (happy to share my ideas if you want them).

The opening lines of Pride and Prejudice are just so applicable to so many things! Also, as this was the runner up to LoTR in the BBC Big Read, it just seemed very appropriate...

So, guess I'd better work out how to apply Animal Farm to the Council of Elrond then.... Or come up with something else.... Or quietly slink away, as I think I've now captured enough people for this to be a challenge without me participating

(*hides from Marta wielding a big stick and threatening I have to write something*)

The May 15th deadline sounds good to me, by the way

Cheers, Liz

 

Erm, Liz, dear...? I've, er, changed me mind about the Jane Austen, heh heh... *sheepish* I've had another idea I'd like to try since poetry is permitted. I'd like to try adapting Robert Browning's "My Last Duchess" to the story of Aredhel and Eol... it's so appropriate.

me? doing poetry????

Provided, of course, Silm characters are allowed... If not, I'll think of something else...

a very sheepish Ti

*slinks off*

 

Erm, Liz, dear...? I've, er, changed me mind about the Jane Austen

LOL, that's OK. Doing anything about this challenge is a very distant prospect for me so I haven't got anywhere with either of my ideas yet.

Provided, of course, Silm characters are allowed...

Absolutely - any Tolkien story, timeframe, setting will be fine, I think.

Of course, if Marta or Dwim would like to come up with some proposed text for the challenge, we'd all be a little clearer (Just kidding - I know you guys are busy!)

Cheers, Liz

 

Of course, if Marta or Dwim would like to come up with some proposed text for the challenge, we'd all be a little clearer (Just kidding - I know you guys are busy!)

*Hangs head in shame*

My apologies, guys. RL decided to kick it into high gear all of the sudden. Here you go -- shred away.

Title: A Tale By Any Other Name
Deadline: 15 May 2004
Summary:

Re: A Tale By Any Other Name
February 11, 2004 3:58 PM

It has been alleged that

"the voices of Joyce and Conrad plead, with the authority of true intelligence, ... [that] the faith of the Middle-Earthers is perpetual childhood; their currency is emotion on the cheap; their epiphany was Princess Diana's funeral. Middle-Earth is the Kingdom of Kitsch."

But is this true? How would authors of the likes of Joyce and Conrad have related to Middle-earth? If they chose to write Tolkien-based fanfic, how would it read?

Your challenge is to pick a well-known author and write a piece of fan fic in his style. Your piece need not mimic exact quotes from the original author, but the overall style should be recognisable.

Marta

 

Hi Marta

thanks for the suggested words. I am quite hapy with them, except that perhaps you should substitute "recognisable" for "similar" at the end?

You mentioned you might want a quote from the article that partly kicked off this challenge, the piece by Richard Eyre in the British Guardian at:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1123920,00.html

A good quote from it which you might want to include is:

"the voices of Joyce and Conrad plead, with the authority of true intelligence, an insistent, stubborn desire to examine lived experience, to provide a moral frame for it rather than take refuge in a maze of whimsical fantasy. ...The faith of the Middle-Earthers is perpetual childhood; their currency is emotion on the cheap; their epiphany was Princess Diana's funeral. Middle-Earth is the Kingdom of Kitsch."

Hope that helps

Cheers, Liz

 

All right, gang. I have edited my original description (see above). Any other suggested changes before we make this thing a go?

Marta

 

Any other suggested changes before we make this thing a go?

Nope, I'm happy

 

Confession:

The above quote makes me want to spit.

The second thing it makes me want to do is show them wrong!! Arrrr...

If I had any doubts about entering before, I have none now. It's just a matter of finding the time...

Cheers!

*goes off to find Robert Browning or someone else*

Ti

 

The above quote makes me want to spit.

The second thing it makes me want to do is show them wrong!! Arrrr...

If I had any doubts about entering before, I have none now. It's just a matter of finding the time...



I think we have a winner as far as the challenge description goes, Marta! If we can get the rest of the HASA membership that wound up....

 

I don't think the quote is necessary. It doesn't make me want to spit.

Is this challenge meant to be vindictive in some way?

I thought it was supposed to be fun.

hello?

Lindorien

 

Lindorien

I'm sorry if you have been offended or are under the impression the challenge is meant to be vindictive in any way. That was certainly not my intention.

The quote was chosen merely because it was the one that prompted me to propose this challenge in the first place, after discussion of it on the HA list showed that HA members are, by anybody's standards, well versed in the classics.

I thought the challenge was a fun way to allow us to demonstrate that, despite this author's assertions, HASA members do love both Tolkien and "classic" literature - and that we have the ability to laught at ourselves a little sometimes.

Cheers, Liz

 

Apologies if anyone thought I was feeling vindictive!!! *sigh* I must remember that when I'm typing, people can't see my face. @ self.

Of course the challenge is meant to be fun - I never thought of it any other way! I just tend to get irritated by people who look down on Tolkien fans and who say things that show they really don't know what they're talking about...

Again, "vindictive" or anything related to it is not my aim or my feeling - sorry if anyone got that impression!!!

*rather sheepish*

Ti

p.s. glad to see I provided some entertainment for ya Liz

 

Gosh Tiana! Stop apologizing! You didn't suggest the quote.

To anybody else with an opinion on the matter:

I had noticed that article mentioned somewhere along the line as the inspiration for this challenge. I saw the discussion on the listserv -- even read a little of it. It got rabid, if the number of 'reply to' posts was any indication.

The guy has an opinion.

We all do.

Unless the idea is pack these up and send them to him, thereby proving his point regarding 'overreaction' to things, perhaps we could just leave the quote by the side of the road. It is enough for everybody to get a kick out of writing like some famous author. The origin of the idea doesn't have to be listed in the challenge description.

Besides, the quote doesn't add anything to the description.

Lindorien

 

Summary post time!

Ti-

In response to a much earlier post of yours -- yes, Silm characters are allowed. And poetry, even bad poetry, is encouraged. Heck, if I can turn the American national anthem into a Dol Amroth drinking song and attempt other more serious but no more successful poems, then you are by no means excused from any form of verse. It can be quite fun, in a perverse sort of way.

Now the quote:

Ti-

Don't be ashamed about the quote. Liz suggested I quote from the article, and I chose the exact quote. If anyone is offended please be offended at me, not Ti or anyone else. Not that I think anyone's offended, mind you.

Lindorien-

Personally, I like the quote (though I can't put my finger on why), but the challenge description's supposed to reflect the will of all involved, not just me. I don't mind removing it. How about:

=====

Some critics have argued that Tolkien fans do not appreciate what they would call "good literature." The Tolkien fandom, though, covers most corners of society and includes long-time readers of many "classic" authors.

How would your favourite "great author" have related to Middle-earth? If they chose to write Tolkien-based fanfic, how would it read?

Your challenge is to pick a "classic" author and write a piece of fan fic in his or her style. Your piece need not mimic exact quotes from the original author, but the overall style should be recognisable."

=====

Compare this to the original post with the quote up the thread.

Marta

[Edit: 14 Feb 02, 6:02 PM EST -- have changed "Many critics" in opening paragraph to "Some critics".]

 

How about --

"How would your favourite author have related to Middle-earth? If they chose to write Tolkien-based fanfic, how would it read?

Your challenge is to pick a well-known author and write a piece of fan fic in his style. Your piece need not mimic exact quotes from the original author, but the overall style should be recognisable."

Lindorien

 

That last version seems to me to have lost something crucial. Marta, I will e-mail you off-list to discuss the wording further and see what we can bring back to the forum.

Cheers, Liz

 

What about a description that is something alone the lines of the one at the top of this thread?

I'm being nibbled by this challenge, I'm not sure I want to be bitten though.

 

Lindorien wrote:
How about --

"How would your favourite author have related to Middle-earth? If they chose to write Tolkien-based fanfic, how would it read?

Your challenge is to pick a well-known author and write a piece of fan fic in his style. Your piece need not mimic exact quotes from the original author, but the overall style should be recognisable."

Lindorien's proposed challenge description gives all the information that's technically necessary -- what the limitations of the challenge is -- but it lacks (for want of a better term) fangs. And if it's not fanged, then how the heck am I supposed to purvey it? If I wasn't already convinced to write this challenge, there's nothing in this description to convince me to do so.

Most challenges have something thematic that's a limiting factor. The "Don't Worry, Be Happy" challenge dealt with Faramir-centric stories, so for a catch you could talk about scenes from Faramir's life. But this story has no thematic thing we can talk about. Literally every area of Tolkien -- Hobbit, LotR, Silm, HoME, UT, whatever -- is eligible. The limitation is stylistic. Therefore, logically the catch should be stylistic.
I agree that an exact quote was going a bit too far, and probably not very smart from a legal POV to single out a particular article like that, when the challenge will eventually go to the public side of the website. But the fact is, the challenge was inspired by the charge that Tolkien fans couldn't appreciate what's considered the "classics."

Yes, a challenge can and should be fun, not indictive, but a challenge description should be convincing people to write the challenge. And while it shouldn't be vindictive (and I agree, my first version could be misconstrued that way), it should have teeth.

I'd also like to clarify something. I said a few posts up that a challenge description should reflect the opinions of all who want to participate. And I stand by that, but I think I should clarify it a bit. The name of the nuzgul breeder (the person who first thought up the thing) will be associated with the challenge. Therefore, the challenge description must reflect what they intended, otherwise it's wrong to put their name down as breeder.

Beyond that, it should reflect the opinions of those who want to write it. As CM I usually write the first drafts of these summaries, so my own opinion usually shows through more than most people, but that's not intentional, it's just inevitable since I'm writing the drafts. Except in cases where I'm also the breeder I don't hold my own opinion any more important than anyone else planning on writing the challenge. But making the description fit the breeder's intents is first priority.

Beruthiel's cats, this has become a much longer post than I originally intended. Are there any further suggestions/comments?

Marta

 

What about a description that is something alone the lines of the one at the top of this thread?

The only problem with that -- the quote in the first paragraph (based on Austen's "Pride and Prejudice") was originally suggested when Liz and I were batting this idea around in private e-mails. I think she's going to be writing her entry on something along those lines(?) and I'm hesitant to include it for that reason.

Besides that, though, the original prompt seems very similar to what I suggested in Msg # 21008. Is that acceptable?

FYI: I'm off to a Valentine's day concert at the church. Depending on how late it goes I may or may not check messages until tomorrow morning. So if I do not get back with you for a bit that is why; I'm not ignoring people.

TTFN,

Marta

 

Many critics have argued that Tolkien fans do not appreciate what they would call "good literature." The Tolkien fandom, though, covers most corners of society and includes long-time readers of many "classic" authors.

How many critics? Who are they and what have they argued? Where can I find those arguments? What do those critics call 'good literature' that they claim the amorphous 'Tolkien fans' do not appreciate?

How about we put a positive rather than a negative spin on it?

"As evidenced by the talents of many of the authors here at HASA, Tolkien fans appreciate a good piece of writing. From the Odyssey to Gilbert and Sullivan, from Longfellow to Salinger, our writers have demonstrated an ability to draw upon their varied and well-read backgrounds to produce wonderful works of fanfic.

Now a challenge is presented to draw upon this rich resource to consider how a 'classic' author might have approached some aspect of Tolkien's world. How would a well-known author write fanfic? What would it look like?"

Work in the rest however you like.

Lindorien

 

For the record, I see nothing wrong with using Mr. Eyre's article as a setting against which to launch this Challenge. The proposed prompt is clear, it's concise, it's witty, and it's not disrespectful imo because authors of this challenge are answering a point of debate by providing what we hope will be evidence against Mr. Eyre's (among many others') position. We're also covered by fair use, particularly by linking back to his article. As for who the critics are, there's a link above. Another is here. Naturally everything has its bias, we no more nor less than Mr. Eyre or Mr. Wilson. But since no story is going to be about *them*, I feel no concern that anyone is attempting to injure anyone else. The point is not to fling the gauntlet back in Mr. Eyre's face and break his teeth, it is to allow other fans of Tolkien to judge for themselves whether Mr. Eyre is correct.

 

The point is not to fling the gauntlet back in Mr. Eyre's face and break his teeth, it is to allow other fans of Tolkien to judge for themselves whether Mr. Eyre is correct.

Mr. Eyre, would no doubt be amused to see the reaction his article has engendered among those rabid Tolkien fans.

I capitulate. If everybody else wants it, leave the wording as it was - cite the article. The point of the challenge is evident and no doubt readers of the challenge shall draw their own conclusions on the matter. Let us hope that the challenge description does not draw attention away from the challenge entries.

I've said what I had to, my protest is logged.

Now then, can we put THIS puppy on a leash and take it out for a walk? My contributions are already barking and I've a few more waiting in the kennels.

Lindorien

 

It's official "A Tale By Any Other Name" is now a challenge. Feel free to write and submit or try to back out at your leisure. (Good luck if you choose the latter.) Feel free to continue discussing here.

Thanks, everyone, for all your help with this one.

Marta

 

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