Henneth Annûn Story Archive

I have a slightly megalomaniac idea for a challenge to honour the anniversary of the first publication of "The Lord of the Rings" next year. It is about an idea Tolkien himself had, in the year 1944! I have discussed it with Meril and Aeneid and they think it's good enough to open a discussion about it. So here it comes. *** In letter no. 69, 14 May 1944, Tolkien wrote to his son, Christopher Tolkien: "(...) I suddenly got an idea for a new story (...) A man sitting at a high window and seeing not the fortunes of a man or of people, but of a small piece of land (about the size of a garden) all down the ages. He just sees it illuminated, in borders of mist, and things, animals and men just walk on and off, and the plants and trees grow and die and change. (...)" *** This idea touched me deeply and I started thinking about it, how this would read in Middle-earth. To see one piece of land somewhere in Middle-earth through three ages of the world... What could that look like at the end? The history of Middle-earth would be told anew, focussing on one and the same piece of land for one age, with all the comings and goings of that age. Drabbles, vignettes or longer stories would show what happened in Middle-earth condensed into what happened on this piece of land. For example: starting point - the description of the piece of land; year x of age x: drabble - about a fox passing across the land; years x -y of age x: story - Orome riding over the land; year x of age x: drabble - about whatever; year x of age x: story - elves making camp on that plot of land... ...and so on and so on until all the years have passed and the history of Middle-earth has come really alive, true to the idea Tolkien himself had, so many, many years ago. *** One piece of land to tell the entire history of Middle-earth - one year, one story - was my original idea. Awesome. But one piece of land and something like 9,000 stories - I guess that's really impossible. So after discussing this idea with Meril and Aeneid, I think it could work like this - if you are at all interested, that is: What's it all about could be explained with Tolkien's quote. Then we break this up into four separate challenges, one for each age. To keep true to Tolkien's original idea (one piece of land throughout the ages) we take one piece of land for each age. Each challenge starts with a detailed description of the piece of land it is about, where the piece of land is situated (e.g. close to Thangorodrim) and what it looks like (rocks, trees, a river etc.). Then there should be a list of the years of each age. To make it manageable, we could make it not years, but decades or centuries, so there would be only about 90 stories to write (or a few more if we decide to include the fourth age). If it is possible I would like the list to work like the "check out"-option at reviews, so you could check out a century for a week (or two), but if you are not able to submit a story to go with the century in that time, the century goes back on the market. Perhaps with a maximum of three centuries per taker. *** What do you think? Is this possible at all? Or do you think this is boring? Yours JunoCrazy

 

O.K., so you think this is boring. *sigh* Meril, how do I delete this crap? Yours Juno

 

Oh, Juno, I don't think it's boring- what I think is daunting is the scope of the project. Maybe decades would be too small a time frame, but if we divide it into major events it might be easier for people to come up with ideas. This would be something along these lines (as pertaining time-division) (I got the dates out of The Encyclopedia of Arda, here http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ -an invaluable resource when I'm at work and I have to write something) The First Age c. 1 Return of the Noldor to Middle-earth. Death of Fëanor. c. 1 Awakening of Men in Hildórien. c. 1 Dagor-nuin-Giliath. c. 50 Journey of Turgon and Finrod. c. 75 Dagor Aglareb. The Siege of Angband is set by the Princes of the Noldor. c. 100 Foundation of Nargothrond. c. 126 Completion of Gondolin. Turgon's people begin the migration from Nevrast. c. 265 Glaurung ravages Beleriand, but is driven back to Angband. So that gives the authors key events to drabble, or ideas of things that could happen at that particular time-period and affect that piece of land... I don't know... This is interesing, though. I'll keep thinking about it and see if I have something more useful to contribute. Starlight

 

It's not boring, Juno, trust me! Starlight is right, though: the scope is enormously frightening. I'm assuming that is what is scaring people off. How about trying Idea #2 for this, and see if there is some more interest? Author chooses a plot of land, and writes a story (1) about Event #1 happening at [place], and then (2) Event #2 happening at [place], or someone in [place] reflecting on Event #1. It could be as simple as Sam lying below the Party Tree, then lying beneath the mallorn in the same spot, reflecting on the War or something. If we can word this more coherantly and interestingly, I think that it would be more successful. Include the quotes and all that as well. I say include a link to your story The Voices of Stone as well, because that is a perfect example of the aim of Idea #2. Always, Allie

 

I know it's daunting. That's why I want to know what other people think about the idea! Yes, I think we'd have to have a chronology for each age. And for the time of the trees and the first age it's difficult even with centuries, not decades. We could make a list with centuries and add the most important incidents. For example (not complete): Third Age: 1900-1999: 1944 Arvedui claims the crown of Gondor 1945 Eärnil II receives the crown 1974 end of the North-kingdom So any taker would no what was going on during that century. It would be up to each writer to decide whether to write a drabble about basically nothing or a whole novel about who passed that piece of land and why during that century. Resources would be thrilled, I bet. I was hoping that a specialist for each age could be found to manage the challenge for that age and prepare the relevant timeline. But up until now Tolkien's idea was greeted with universal silence, so I thought, well, forget about it. Yours JunoEverHopeful

 

I like this, Allie! Then we would not have to do the same piece of land during times where nothing might be happening there, but instead pick places that mean something. I would love to try Ithilien, for instance- that place changed so much through the ages! Or, maybe Hollin? In "The Ring Goes South" (FotR Book II, Chapter 3) Legolas says he hears the stones speak. That could be a good starting point, I think. My question is, would we write from the land's point of view, or stick with just one character with his/her point of view, or would we be able to write several different characters in that same land? Starlight

 

I still would like to do the big thing... *sigh* But as I already wrote the kind of story Allie suggested, I can't really complain. Though I have to revise "The Voices of Stone"... I need to split it into different chapters. (sigh) About the POV: I think that's not important. To Tolkien it was important that it was the same piece of land throughout the ages. The one thing that stays the same, no matter what changes occur. Yours Juno

 

Juno and I had a correspondence about this for awhile, and in the end came up with two ideas: the one I mentioned in my previous post, and the one presented in the first post where it was a joint story between many, many authors (for hawriters). The exact quote of inspiration is taken from Letter number 69, 14 May 1944, to Christopher Tolkien: “…I suddenly got an idea for a new story (…) – in church yesterday, I fear. A man sitting at a high window and seeing not the fortunes of a man or of people, but of one small piece of land (about the size of garden) all down the ages. He just sees it illuminated, in borders of mist, and things, animals and men just walk on and off, and the plants and trees grow and die and change." And then, obviously, there's Legolas's quote in FOTR: "That is true," said Legolas. "But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago." If someone wanted to take that oft-used line, s/he could, say, write about the stonecutter who carved the stones (in that spot), and then about Legolas's thoughts while passing over the same spot. Juno, I think that this one might work best with idea #2. It leaves authors much more freedom to work with, and to choose something of their own to focus on. Thoughts? Always, Allie

 

I still would like to do the big thing... Oh, I know how you feel! I've always wanted us to go ahead and drabble The Tale of Years... Mmm.... let me think... If we do the big thing, my question would be: For each age, do we pick just one piece of land so everybody can work on it through the different time-frames? Well, maybe not just one, but limit it to two or three (or any set number) of the most relevant ones so that people can have more varied choices but still we don't get everyone scattered around. So, for instance, First Age: Beleriand Nargothrond Gondolin Now, it gets a bit complicated- Gondolin and Nargothrond were destroyed. I guess my question is, do you want the same piece of land throughout all of the ages? That's where I think it will be hard to pick just one place that survived until the fourth age. Does that make sense? Maybe Cirdan's Grey Havens? Or, maybe Lorien or Mirkwood. I think I'm all confused now. Am I following your thread of thought, Juno? At least a little bit? ;-) Starlight

 

You're getting it right, Starlight. And you're right: it is complicated because so many places of important events were destroyed. Juno suggested choosing one piece of land for each age, and I think that would work better than trying to find a piece of land that survived that long (of course, Aman is that way, but that's different...). First Age: Doriath, Gondolin, Nargothrond, Belfalas Second Age: Eregion, Lorien, Numenor (!), Grey Havens Third Age: take your pick. Lots to choose from. Rohan, Gondor, Mordor, Shire, Lorien, Mirkwood, etc. Fourth Age: take your pick again. Always, Allie

 

You are right and Meril/Allie is right, too. One piece through three or four ages, that's impossible. Although the Grey Havens would be perfect. I think that's about the only piece of land intact and seeing action throughout the ages. That could work actually! But I thought we could perhaps use a different piece of land for each age, and select a piece of land that would see the most important action of that age. But as each age has about 3000 years, we could also select one piece of land for each milennium - but perhaps that would get too confusing. Yours Juno

 

Can I suggest something simpler? Why not just choose a few pieces of land and let people write about it at any moment in time they want? You could just choose one to start, and if it's popular, start more. Some ideas: -Isle of Balar -Ithilien - crossroads? -Lower Greenwood (near Dol Guldor) -Lake Evendim -Moria -Henneth Annun -Bree -Menegroth -Tol Sirion -Cirith Ninniach/First of Drengist -That hill in Lothlorien...(name escapes me) Folks could contribute anything...just a drabble, whatever; leave lots of chapter space and folks can stick it in where it fits. Start out the story with a basic description of the land, what happened when, maybe a few prompts to get the imagination going, and let it take off from there. I'm sure most of us have a favourite character or two we could at *least* squeeze out a drabble on in that location...and it would be a chance to play with bit characters a la the fox. I think it could be a lot of fun! Elemmíre

 

I think this is a wonderful idea... and I think it could be easily possible to do one piece of land throughout the different ages. It seems that a series of drabbles, or something similiar, would work best. The writer could pick a place that seems insignificant; a little patch of wilderness that might not be important in the slightest (for example, why do we need to write of the great cities and forests? Why not write about a plot of land that three or four generations of hobbits have lived and toiled upon?) in regards to Tolkien's work. I think that's what caught Juno's imagination--- the idea that Tolkien had of the same place changing over time and how the world of men/elves etc, might have touched it knowlingly and even unknowingly. Fascinating, really. I'd like to do this challenge if I were allowed to stay with the same bit of earth and instead have the time frame change...

 

Hugs to Otto's goat! Yes, I believe that's exactly what Tolkien found interesting about the idea: that the land stays the same, though mountains move, trees wither, peoples pass... it's about the question what stays the same and what changes throughout the ages. So I am really not happy with the idea of leaving it up to the writer to choose any piece of land at any given time. Perhaps we should have this not as a challenge with a deadline in time for the anniversary, but open it in time to honour the anniversary next year? As far as I can tell resources are very busy with fixing the timelines of the different ages, so we could simply make a list for each age (either in centuries or in decades or in years, base it on one piece of land for each age) post it (perhaps not in the Challenges? Or at the top of the Challenges section?) and simply let it go... wait and see if we can fill the entire history of Middle-earth with life - be it drabbles or whatever! I still think it would be ideal if a feature could be included to prevent people from hogging years. It should be something like the "check out"-feature in reviews, so that you can claim one year or a number of years you are interested in, but if you don't get around to writing them, they go back on the market. Yours Juno

 

I still love this idea, Juno... It's so beautiful, and honoring Tolkien's grand idea. The checkout feature might not be possible, because it would require new coding. If we kept a list of years, in a forum post, that could work. Have people volunteer for certain years, and keep going back and editing that post. Always, Allie

 

*sigh* I have simply no idea what is and what is not possible with computers and html and stuff. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic (Murphy’s Technology Laws no.21)" So the easy way to do it would be to create a forum for each age, start in with the description of the piece of land and a list of years and delete the years (or centuries) as they are taken away. *frowns* that sounds like a lot of work. That sounds a lot of work for... little old me... (what have I done? Look people, perhaps this *is* boring and impossible after all...) Yours Juno

 

Eh, I'd say keep it very centralized. Make one forum, with a thread for each age. If the threads get too long, we can always create new ones. I'd also suggest a welcome thread, explaining just what this project is about. But before we go off creating forums, I'd say publicize the revised idea onlist. We could see how much interest this garners. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic (Murphy’s Technology Laws no.21)" LOL, Juno! I agree with that one! ~Allie

 

So if people "claimed" an age or a certain year for themselves, would that mean no one else would be able to work on it? For example, the Pelonner Fields--- what if someone chose to do three fics, one on the First Age, the second on the Second, and the third on the Fourth age. Now take another person, who also wants to do a piece on the Pelonner fields, but instead wants to work with Ages First-Third; does that mean that person can't submit any work? Or what if two different people wish to write on the same exact place; same time periods--- does that mean they can't if someone has already claimed them? And last of all, does this make any sense whatsoever? Or am I going at this from the wrong angle? The bunnies have attacked me and it's taking quite a bit of work to sit still and not proceed with this on my own... ! -Otto's Goat

 

No, you're making sense. I'm not sure about that, because I haven't organized this type of challenge before, and I certainly don't want to exclude anyone from writing something because his/her year is taken! Input? ~Allie

 

Does it really matter if two people choose a similar time? Why not just encourage people to post with about what year/event they're working on, and figure people are unlikely to double up unpardonably? The particular spot - and I think it should be fairly small - needn't figure in any or all of the biggest events, after all, and I think people will be just as interested in exploring tangential happenings. Elemmíre

 

I agree with Elemmíre... even if people pick the same times, they are going to be coming at it from very different angles, so I doubt there wil be any repitition... and the land can be anything; a little brook that someone may have created; a field or a gravesite.

 

Sorry that I reply so late; I was away for the weekend. I don't really mind having double, triple or whatever posts. I guess I was thinking only along the lines of... how can we manage to really fill out the years from 0-fourth age and I thought, well, the most efficient way would be to allow each year to be taken only once. What I still would like to keep is that it ought to be the same piece of land for every story of one age, because that is true to Tolkien's idea. But that does not mean that this one piece of land that IMO should be described at the out-set can't change - landscapes do change within 3,000 years, after all: deserts spread, rivers run dry, floods, fires etc. So: to sum it up what we have now is: one forum (first post: the quote from the letter), with a thread for each age (first post: description of the piece of land and the list of years/centuries/whatever); a chronological order - but you are still undecided whether it should be years, decades or centuries; everyone can write as many years/centuries/whatever as she or he wants to. Did I forget anything? Any other ideas? Yours Juno

 

... So, is it official? -Otto's Goat

 

If you will write the original post and give an ending date, one of us will set it up. RiverOtter

 

I think we are not quite at that point... don't I wish it, though... I was just trying to sum up what we have up until now... before I post it at HA ... But if you think we can start right away... One forum: Tolkien's idea (I can write the post for that one, would love to, in fact ) Three to four threads: for each age a thread - we need volunteers... I think at the moment the volunteers get to pick the piece of land for the relevant age so perhaps this will induce some brave writers to take this on. *looks around with a hopeful expression on her face* On the downside they'd have to give a list of the centuries of each age and perhaps some hints about what happened in each century (I don't think resources is finished with the timelines yet, or are they? I am willing to do either third or fourth age, though I'd prefer fourth age... The things I know best about the second age can be found in an AU fanfiction story and concerning the first age I still can't spell the infamous Lake C. And how many takers are out there at the moment? Yours Juno - a little confused about where we are at the moment...

 

I've been following this discussion with some interest, so I'm going to go ahead and toss in my two-bits.

One forum: Tolkien's idea... Three to four threads: for each age a thread... On the downside they'd have to give a list of the centuries of each age and perhaps some hints about what happened in each century...

I think you're making it more complicated than it need be. The Appendicies in LotR are quite comprehensive (as far as supplying the major events of the four ages of Arda), and anything else that writers have questions about can likely be answered by our resident research geeks. As for the forum, just post the main topic/challenge idea, and let the discussion evolve from there. It will fall into place, and if it gets too unwieldy you can simply start new threads as needed. The idea of writing about a single parcel of Arda's landscape down through the ages is a wonderful idea. My take on your idea is that each writer should be able to chose a place rather than an age. If that writer choses to write about only one age/event for that place, perhaps others will pick up on the other ages for that place. Or a single writer could write about more than one age for that spot. The key is to leave the options open for the writers. Otherwise they may feel overwhelmed and give up on the idea. That is what my experience has shown me anyway. And the main objective is to get people to write, yes? ~Nessime

 

Exactly. The main objective is to get people writing. So simplify your challenge. When you are ready to have it posted as an open challenge. send a message to HA Challenge Managers please. RiverOtter

 

*cheers* Yay, Juno! Allie

 

Exactly. The main objective is to get people writing.

When I read the first post, with the quotation from Tolkien's letter to his son, my thoughts went immediately to a particular place in Middle-earth - and then I started thinking about all the events that occured there. There are a number of canon events recorded in Tolkien's extended works, but my immagination also went to times when there aren't any, and I began to envision what that place might have like in those different time frames. The opportunity to do some gap-filling is tantalizing - as is the notion of exploring the impact various events would have had on this particular piece of real-estate. I think that might appeal to a broader group of writers, and would be consistent with the desire to honor the inspiration that Tolkien speaks of in his letter to Christopher. That's my two-bits, for what it's worth. ~Nessime

 

Hi all, by now you have managed to get me absolutely confused about what you think is necessary to make this one possible and what should be up for grabs. Well, I agree with keeping it as simple as possible. So: somewhere up the thread it was suggested that there should be hints about events to get people writing. Now Nessime suggested that would make things too confusing... Back to simplicity: I take the quote, describe the piece of land and wait what happens? If I do it that way, I think I'd use the Grey Havens... The only thing which seems really important to me is that it should be the same piece of land at least for each age. If anyone can tell me where we are at now, I'd be grateful. My degree paper is turning my brain into mush. Yours Juno

 

The only thing which seems really important to me is that it should be the same piece of land at least for each age.

I think this is the main problem that I'm seeing with this. You seem to want to limit it to only one place in Middle-earth and everyone would have to write about that one place. IMO the individual writers should be free to choose a place that appeals to them as a writer, then write about that place through the ages. In that way there is a greater likelihood that more ages and more places will get some attention from writers. It makes perfect sense if you as an individual writer want to focus on the Grey Havens, and then see if there are other writers who are also interested in that place who'd like to write about it in other ages. But to say that everyone has to write about that one place will limit the amount of interest that your challenge might attract. BTW it isn't the idea of "hints about events" that I was finding too complicated (I did not say it was "confusing" - they are not the same thing). I just think what was proposed wrt the discussion would result in creating extra work for other people - and for yourself - unnecessarily. Either way, I like the concept that Tolkien spoke of in his letter, and whether what I decide to write fits your challenge or not, you have given me an idea for a story . For that much I am appreciative. Good luck, ~Nessime

 

Hi Nessime, I'm glad that you got an idea out of this discussion! About the challenge: I think I am simply afraid that if we don't at least narrow it down to the same piece of land for one age that it will be impossible to create this vision Tolkien had of accompanying the same piece of land throughout the ages. I think if you leave the piece of land and the timeline up to the writers you get at the best what I already did with "The voices of stone": three or four stories of one and the same piece of land. And that's not what Tolkien had in mind, I think. I'd really like to see the same piece of land throughout the ages, watching people, animals, history, moving across it or forgetting it... the way Tolkien described it. But perhaps that is simply impossible. *sigh* Anway, thanks and merry Christmas! Yours Juno

 

But why narrow it down? This could be open for several years to come, with people throwing in bits and pieces whenever they wished., of whatever they wished. Think back to Tolkien, his work took years in the making, and it covered such a grand scale... if we start to narrow it down to have it completed for some set time, etc, it might not work out. Anyhow, this has been an interesting idea and it has gotten me started on several seperate ventures. Thanks Juno! -Otto's Goat

 

If that's the way you want it, so mote it be. I think Tolkien's idea deserves to get written. And if you think the best way to do this is to only use the quote and wait and see, then I'll be happy to do exactly that. Yours Juno So: it's back to the very beginning. The Tolkien Challenge is the quote and only the quote - the rest is entirely up to the takers. Who's in? We need five, I think. Yours Juno - happy to be back at a point where she knows what it's all about.

 

Who's in? If it's left up to the individual writer to chose the place and time period(s) about which to write, you can count me in. I still think the more open challenge will appeal to more writers, and IMO it can and does honor the vision Tolkien wrote about - perhaps not as literally as you've envisioned, but it does honor it in spirit. It is a grand ambition you have, though. Nothing wrong with daring to dream big - and it may happen yet, just in the natural course of things. ~Nessime

 

Nessime is right: it does honor the spirit of the idea, and that's what's important. Go, Juno, go! Yay! I've got something stewing involving Sam, the Party Tree, and then the mallorn with Elanor, so you can count me in. I'd advise giving this one a year. Or... when's the anniversary of the publication of FOTR, Juno? Allie

 

After plowing thru the net, "On July 29, in 1954 Allen & Unwin published the first edition of The Fellowship of the Ring in Great Britain. 3,500 copies were printed in the first run, and it did well enough that six weeks after publication a second printing was ordered. An American edition from Houghton-Mifflin followed in October 1954" That would give 8 months. RiverOtter

 

All right, so we've got three (me, Juno, and Nessime), and a close date. Two more! Allie

 

I thought Otto's Goat and Starlight were also signing up or is that just an I'm thinking about it? RiverOtter

 

Looking back on posts, Otto's Goat is volunteering (I think). Starlight? Are you in as well? To clarify: Juno, we're going with the everyone-writes-their-own-thing idea, right? The way Nessime suggested it? IMO, it still honors the idea and fits with the quote. Once there are a positive five takers, I'll go and set it up. Yay for challenges! Allie

 

Hi all! Yes, Allie: now the basis for the challenge is back to the quote and only the quote and wait and see what happens. I think it's simply wonderful that there will be something done with the idea at all, because it's really beautiful, and there's such a lot of Middle-earth and Me history out there to catch that way. I'm happy with the long deadline. So: who else is in? Yours Juno

 

I'm in! Otto's Goat

 

I count four - Allie, Juno, Nessume and Otto's Goat. One more and it's a go. Closing date is July 2005. I'll get the exact date later. RiverOtter

 

I'm interested - just checking though - are we writing any piece of land we want? Elcalion

 

Yes, in the end we decided to keep it to the original quote. Only Tolkien's idea, Middle-earth and your creativity. - a piece of land in Middle-earth - throughout the ages What you do with that, and how you do it, is entirely up to you! Yours Juno *looks around* Everything clear now? Any more takers? As a belated birthday present for the professor?

 

Elcalion are you in? If so, that makes 5. Juno, give me the wording and closing date please. RiverOtter

 

If you need a definite fifth, then I'm in. I don't know if this is what you mean, but Ainae asked for a Birthday drabble in this thread last April. It was based on this quote: 'But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.' I think there were three or four responses. Anyway, is this drabble okay? It does look rather short. Maybe I could expand it and write more on Hollin.

 

Hi Elvenesse, drabbles are fine. After much discussion we have gone back to the roots with this one. It will be about an idea Tolkien had in 1944: In letter no. 69, 14 May 1944, Tolkien wrote to his son, Christopher Tolkien: "(...) I suddenly got an idea for a new story (...) A man sitting at a high window and seeing not the fortunes of a man or of people, but of a small piece of land (about the size of a garden) all down the ages. He just sees it illuminated, in borders of mist, and things, animals and men just walk on and off, and the plants and trees grow and die and change. (...)" You may take any piece of land in Middle-earth and follow it down the ages in any way you like, a series of drabbles, poems, songs, stories, novels... As long as it remains true to Tolkien's idea: a piece of land throughout the ages of Middle-earth. I hope you are in! Yours Juno

 

I'm in - now to pick some land!

 

Since you have five, I will post the challenge. Give me a closing date pleaseand the exact wording of the challenge. RiverOtter

 

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