Henneth Annûn Story Archive

Let's continue this thread from the Reference Library - entries, requests, etc. discussion here. - Barbara

 

This is in reply to Liz's Resources Discussion Workshop post from the old thread: Hi Liz! With Lyllyn's permission, I have temporarily taken over the previously titled "Research library - timeline events" workshop and turned it into a more general Resources Discussions workshop. Excellent, thank you! Just a thought: do we see this as more for the Resources admins & volunteers than for the general HASA public? If so, we might want to name it something like Resource Admin Discussions, and continue using the Reference Library (etc.) Edit: (old) discussion as the first point of contact for queries from everyone else. What do you think? (There shouldn't be a problem moving the "Resource Admin Discussions (Current)" thread to the Edit: hypothetical "Resource Admin Discussions" Workshop -- I'm thinking more of the general public who might be browsing the Workshop list and being curious about who the intended audience is.) Also, should we move the Preferred Practices and the Place Names threads to the Workshop and obsolete the ones in the current forum? Er, for that matter: Lyllyn, are the Place Names threads being used by anyone? I wouldn't mind either obsoleting them or passing the spreadsheet along to someone else to maintain (whenever a new Place is entered)... However, in order to do this, I had to get rid of the existing discussion (which only had one post in it anyway) and create a new discussion, Thank you! (Just as a thought: is it possible to remove threads from regular (non-Workshop) discussions? I'm thinking that if some threads (Preferred Practices, Place Names) are copied to the Workshop, we might not want them to clutter up the original forum, so as not to confuse occasional users. Of course, I will rename them OBSOLETE in the interim.) I've posted some threads to start off with. Barbara, I've left it up to you to transfer Pending Resource Library Corrections across Will do. Do you think it's worth structuring [New Entries] like the Places Entered threads I think that's an excellent idea, despite the disadvantage of the bottleneck of editing the top post. Do we need to separate the list into diffferent types of entries ie Bios, Places, Things and Timeline Events, and then arrange it alphabetically within that? Yes, probably a good idea to separate them. I'll maintain them. (I promised to do the Council of Elrond entry many months ago , but at the rate I'm going, won't do it for another year... if I stick it on the list, and someone else happens to snatch it up in less than a year, it's a good thing, right? ) - Barbara

 

Reply to Liz's post here: Barbara wrote: Would you like to add that intro to your Great Plague-related events? Excellent suggestion and done! I also added it to one of your events as well (the one about King T and his heirs dying). So all the events in the Overview are now linked with that. Thank you! I forgot about T & his kids being mine... - Barbara

 

Hi Barbara Just a thought: do we see this as more for the Resources admins & volunteers than for the general HASA public? If so, we might want to name it something like Resource Admin Discussions, and continue using the Reference Library (etc.) Edit: (old) discussion as the first point of contact for queries from everyone else. What do you think? I ummed and ahhed for a bit before I renamed the workshop and I'm not delirious about the name I picked either but. ... While I see the workshop as being primarily for "researchers" to talk about their work (entries, research articles etc). I didn't want to make the general HASA public feel excluded. I certainly don't want the general HASA public to feel we're suddenly having "secret talks behind their backs"! (Mostly it's stuff that's just really boring to anyone not involved.) I think naming the workshop Resource Admin Discussions risks it being seen as not-for-me-because-I'm-not-an-admin. So that's why I didn't put "Admin" in there. But if anyone else can come up with a better name, I'll gladly change it. I'm thinking more of the general public who might be browsing the Workshop list and being curious about who the intended audience is. I did put the following at the start of the workshop description: This is the place to discuss anything related to management of the resources section and research library. (Emphasis added here) Also, should we move the Preferred Practices and the Place Names threads to the Workshop and obsolete the ones in the current forum? I think Preferred Practices should stay public, in case we get some random passing soul who wants to do an entry. But the discussions thrashing out what preferred practices we want to adopt should take place here. The Place Names thread probably ties in with the Entries Needed stuff, and I'm still not clear how we should run that. (Just as a thought: is it possible to remove threads from regular (non-Workshop) discussions? Yes, it is possible if you have access to the forums part of the admin area, where you can edit or delete any post. IIRC it's a fairly tedious process, because the safest/best way to delete threads and avoid causing weirdness in the database is to delete every post in order backwards. (As I understand it, all subsequent posts in a thread hang off the first and/or another earlier post. I know from experience that deleting an earlier post and leaving a later post can cause problems.) Anyway, I think you need to find a tame admin with some spare time. New Entries: Yes, probably a good idea to separate them. I'll maintain them. Excellent I promised to do the Council of Elrond entry if I stick it on the list, and someone else happens to snatch it up in less than a year, it's a good thing, right? Oh yes! Cheers, Liz

 

While I see the workshop as being primarily for "researchers" to talk about their work (entries, research articles etc). I didn't want to make the general HASA public feel excluded. I certainly don't want the general HASA public to feel we're suddenly having "secret talks behind their backs"! (Mostly it's stuff that's just really boring to anyone not involved.) My thoughts exactly, but I had a bit more emphasis on the "this is mostly stuff that will bore you unless you are a Resources wonk"... But if anyone else can come up with a better name, I'll gladly change it. I suppose "Boring Resources Discussions" is out of the question? I did put the following at the start of the workshop description: This is the place to discuss anything related to management of the resources section and research library. (Emphasis added here) A bit subtle if you aren't looking at it closely... but probably okay for now. Perhaps you could add a mention that the public (not sure how to word that) should check the Reference Library - entries (etc) thread first? I see that Edit: old discussion as the first point of contact for the public, and then we might refer posters to the more detailed discussions in the Workshop if appropriate. (Or, we just might discuss something ourselves in Workshop, then give an answer in the original (old) discussion. It would be a case-by-case decision on what's appropriate.) It's not that I want to exclude the public (anyone can join the workshop, right?), it's that I want to set their expectations properly about what's in the Workshop (mostly boring detail, if you're not involved), and to have them go to the old discussion as the public face of Resources if they want to post a request or question. I think Preferred Practices should stay public, in case we get some random passing soul who wants to do an entry. But the discussions thrashing out what preferred practices we want to adopt should take place here. Okay, I'm not entirely convinced (we can still point new volunteers to the Workshop thread), but I'll leave it there for now. Concur on the thrashing. The Place Names thread probably ties in with the Entries Needed stuff, and I'm still not clear how we should run that. In the sense that the audience is "someone who is about to add an entry", yes, they are similar. But the Place Names threads contain "every Place entry that's already there" (intended to be accurate and all-inclusive), whereas the New Entries threads will contain "every entry (of any type) that's NOT there" (and only the ones that someone happened to think up). The threads would be handled similarly (with the list at the top). But I do not intend to deal with synonyms or rearrange names as I do with Places, so New Events will be simpler to administer. I think they both belong in the workshop, but I'll hold off on moving the Places threads, in case someone volunteers to take them over for me. (Pretty please? Anyone? I have a spreadsheet you can use... ) Anyway, I think you need to find a tame admin with some spare time. For now, I'll just mark the old threads, and hope they eventually sink to the bottom of the list. - Barbara

 

In response to Liz's post from April 16 here: Barbara, who kinda likes the name The Ring of Doom herself... sounds so overly dramatic... Hmm, isn't the Ring of Doom also the place the Valar sat round in uselessly er, carefully debating what to do after Morgoth and Ungoliant killed the Trees? At last! I found the quote that shows that I didn't make up that name for the One Ring: 'What a tale we have been in, Mr. Frodo, haven't we?' [Sam] said. 'I wish I could hear it told! Do you think they'll say: Now comes the story of Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom? And then everyone will hush, like we did, when in Rivendell they told us the tale of Beren One-hand and the Great Jewel. I wish I could hear it! The Return of the King, LoTR Book 6, Ch 4, The Field of Cormallen - Barbara, sighing with relief

 

Hi Barbara I suppose "Boring Resources Discussions" is out of the question? Well, not completely out of the question.... although I am wondering what kind of look Lyllyn would give us if we did use that. As usual, sleeping on things helped, I think. The problem I have with "admin" is that it means something quite specific to me at HASA ("the admins") that doesn't encompass most members, and which most members (if they're sensible!) run a mile from. I don't think it encourages people in. So, how about calling it something like "Resource Volunteer Discussions"? Which I hope warns "here be geeky stuff" and "enter at own risk" (not to mention "abandon hope all ye who enter here" ) but also applies to all members because anyone can volunteer, and do as much or as little as they want: even the smallest bit of work or an idea can help. (And why do I feel like I'm currently taking part in that Monty Python "People's Front of Judea/Judean People's Front/etc" scene...?) Re: Preferred Practices, I'm not convinced about leaving it in the current thread either. Ooh, ooh, idea.... (I really just did have this!) How about putting the posts from Preferred Practices into the chapters of a research article and putting the story in the workshop? Then any of us can add new chapters when we've agreed something new that has been thrashed out in the forums here? That puts Preferred Practices firmly into the workshop, but still "out there" for the general membership as well. It also means that the Preferred Practices thread doesn't get buried somewhere down the list when we haven't added anything new for a while. Places and New Entries Aha, now I understand how Places works. Thanks. Hmm, now we have the workshop, is there an easier way to maintain them? For now, I'll just mark the old threads, and hope they eventually sink to the bottom of the list. That sounds best. I'm always reluctant to delete anything in case we need to go back over past reasoning for any reason. Cheers, Liz (And excellent on the Ring of Doom. You know, I don't always think you invent things, Barbara. I'd just come across the phrase recently in regard to the Valar council ring, so I wanted to flag up that there might be confusion. )

 

Hi folks *ahem* I have a small, er, that is a large problem: I think I'm about to bust the word limit on a resources entry with my Gondorians bio. From past discussions with Ang, I believe the large text fields on the site can take around 11000 words as counted by HASA (or around 64000 characters). My Gondorians bio has currently reached around 10,800 words as counted by HASA. (I pasted the latest version into an off-list story to check the formatting before I uploaded it into the research library.) Word counts it as around 62,000 characters with spaces. But around a third of the characters are hyperlinks: if I copy and paste the entry back from HASA to Word, which strips out the hyperlinks, it comes down to around 41000 characters. And I still have the Stewards and Fourth Age history sections to enter.... I can see two main options here. One is to strip out lots of the hyperlinks, which is something I'd rather not do, since I think they're very useful for members when researching a topic. And I may still hit the word limit, since there's a lot of history to the Stewards, even though I'm planning to minimise what I write about the Battle of Pelennor Fields, Siege of Minas Tirith etc (thanks to Barbara's lovely entries). So the other option is to put the history section somewhere else and link to it from the bio. The question then becomes: where? One alternative is to put it into a research article. This would certainly avoid the word limit issue, since I could create separate chapters for each subdivision of history. The big drawback I see is that only I can edit the entry easily. (A full admin with access to the Stories area could also edit it.) Another alternative is to create another resource library entry to contain the History. I was initially thinking a second bio, but (doh!) I then realised it would make a lot more sense to create a timeline event called something like Gondorians History: Overview , wouldn't it? Am I missing any other more sensible options? And which choice do people think is best? My preference, now I've thought it through, is to create a Gondorians History: Overview timeline event. Also, is this something I should ask about over in the "public" Reference Library - entries, requests, etc. discussion so that the general membership can comment? Cheers, Liz (PS - any comments on my last post about the name of this workshop and what we do with Preferred Practices.)

 

I think the Overview idea makes the most sense. It accords with what we're doing in other areas, and makes it easier for people to find the area they're interested in. Lyllyn

 

Hi Liz! Don't know how I missed this post -- sorry! So, how about calling it something like "Resource Volunteer Discussions"? Which I hope warns "here be geeky stuff" and "enter at own risk" (not to mention "abandon hope all ye who enter here" ) but also applies to all members because anyone can volunteer, and do as much or as little as they want: even the smallest bit of work or an idea can help. Oh, that's perfect! Just the right level of inviting and warning at the same time... Re: Preferred Practices, I'm not convinced about leaving it in the current thread either. ... How about putting the posts from Preferred Practices into the chapters of a research article and putting the story in the workshop? Oh, hey, that's a great idea, Liz! Mostly because, as you say, any one of us could add new chapters. I'm a little busy for now, but maybe in a few days, I'll copy the thread over (adding the Genealogical Event Title recommendations), and leave pointers in the public thread. (Oh, wait, I was working on an improvement to the titles...) I want to post the templates two ways: one with descriptions, and the other ready-to-use; it would be the blank template that we could copy and paste to start a new document, without having to strip out the descriptive text. (Unfortunately, we'd still have to convert '{' to '<'.) Hmmm, would it be worth splitting into two separate documents: Guidelines vs. Templates? Places and New Entries Aha, now I understand how Places works. Thanks. Hmm, now we have the workshop, is there an easier way to maintain them? At this point, I'm reluctant to do anything with Places unless I get some clear indication that someone is using them or (even better) is willing to maintain them. (And yes, I still intend to start the New Entries posts, with a few examples to start with.) And excellent on the Ring of Doom. You know, I don't always think you invent things, Barbara. Well, I was a little worried in that case, because I remembered having done a search through some of the books for 'Ring' to compile that list of Other Names... Fortunately, it does look like I was paying attention at the time! - Barbara

 

I think I'm about to bust the word limit on a resources entry with my Gondorians bio. Now, that is a Truly Scary Bio! I can see two main options here. One is to strip out lots of the hyperlinks, which is something I'd rather not do, since I think they're very useful for members when researching a topic. Nooooooooo! *whimper* One alternative is to put it into a research article. This would certainly avoid the word limit issue, since I could create separate chapters for each subdivision of history. The big drawback I see is that only I can edit the entry easily. No, for the reason you stated. I was initially thinking a second bio, but (doh!) I then realised it would make a lot more sense to create a timeline event called something like Gondorians History: Overview , wouldn't it? Yaaaaaaaay! I think it is quite natural to extend the overview concept to any group of events with a strong common theme, and Gondorian History certainly qualifies! For what it's worth, I recommend calling it "History of Gondor: Overview", and (of course!) linking from both the Gondor entry and the Gondorians entry. Also, is this something I should ask about over in the "public" Reference Library - entries, requests, etc. discussion so that the general membership can comment? I'm not sure the general membership cares about what specific kind of entry we place the information in, as long as they can find it when they need it -- and the links from Gondor and Gondorians (and the fact that it would show up on any search for "Gondor") should take care of that. Very elegant and practical solution to your problem, Liz! - Barbara

 

Hi Barbara On the workshop name, Lyllyn and I were bandying some ideas around earlier today offlist, so she may have some more suggestions to throw into the pot as well. Preferred Practices Oh, hey, that's a great idea, Liz! Mostly because, as you say, any one of us could add new chapters. I'm a little busy for now, but maybe in a few days, I'll copy the thread over Excellent I want to post the templates two ways: one with descriptions, and the other ready-to-use; Sounds good. I do like the one with the descriptions, as it helps me work out which quotes to put where, especially with a template I've not used before or recently. it would be the blank template that we could copy and paste to start a new document, without having to strip out the descriptive text. (Unfortunately, we'd still have to convert '{' to '<'.) You can get the page to display < and > without browsers reading them as HTML (I did it for the citations article) if you use the special characters (close up the spaces): & l t ; for < & g t ; for > That allows users to just copy and paste without needing to convert. Hmmm, would it be worth splitting into two separate documents: Guidelines vs. Templates? Or just having separate chapters for guideline and template for each template? And n/p on Places. There's no rush and I certainly don't want you to be doing stuff that just takes time and doesn't help. After all, there's plenty of other stuff you could be spending your time on. Gondorians Bio I think it is quite natural to extend the overview concept to any group of events with a strong common theme, and Gondorian History certainly qualifies! Excellent. And a thumbs up from Lyllyn too. For what it's worth, I recommend calling it "History of Gondor: Overview", and (of course!) linking from both the Gondor entry and the Gondorians entry. OK, now I'm going to show my uber-geekiness and ask: is there difference between "History of Gondor" (place) and "History of Gondorians" (people)? Believe it or not, there have been some events I haven't put into the Gondorian History section — such as certain things being built — as they strike me as being about the place, rather than the people. I was actually considering putting a subset of the Gondorian events into the Gondor Place entry (and doing some ones I missed out entering): the ones that affect its borders or composition in some other way. So I'd like to make it clear to users that we're talking about the history of the people, not the place, in my name for this overview.... *Liz looks at what she's just written and wonders if she should run away screaming now* Another issue is how I link this into the Gondorians bio. I don't want to make users click twice to get the information (ir click down to the History section in the bio and then have to click somewhere else) but I don't want to throw them out of the bio and into the timeline event without making was clear that's what I'm doing. So how about something along the following lines: In the Table of Contents in the bio (the links don't go anywhere at present but will go to subsections in the timeline entry) History — [See Timeline event Gondorians History - Second Age] — [See Timeline event Gondorians History - Third Age] — &mdash [See Timeline event Gondorians History - The Kings] — &mdash [See Timeline event Gondorians History - The Stewards] — [See Timeline event Gondorians History - Fourth Age] And then repeat the links down in the History section in the bio, for anyone scrolling down through the bio. Does that make sense? Cheers, Liz

 

On the workshop name, Lyllyn and I were bandying some ideas around earlier today offlist, so she may have some more suggestions to throw into the pot as well. And I'll be glad to see them. (But I really like RVD...) You can get the page to display < and > without browsers reading them as HTML (I did it for the citations article) if you use the special characters (close up the spaces): & l t ; for < & g t ; for > That allows users to just copy and paste without needing to convert. Woohoo! So, I could do that on both the Template with descriptions, and the blank version... That's a terrific idea, Liz! (And thanks for letting me know that you've already tested it here...) Hmmm, would it be worth splitting into two separate documents: Guidelines vs. Templates? Or just having separate chapters for guideline and template for each template? Yes, I plan to split the Templates into two pages, annotated and blank. But actually, my original question wasn't clear at all. I mean that in the Preferred Practices thread, we have two kinds of beasts: Guidelines, such as Lyllyn's Hierarchy of Sources, and my genealogical title standards-to-be, and we have (HTML) Templates, like for wars, footnotes, etc. Should those be two documents, or two sections of the same one? OK, now I'm going to show my uber-geekiness and ask: is there difference between "History of Gondor" (place) and "History of Gondorians" (people)? ROTFLOLOLOLOL! Do you have any idea why that's so funny? Because I started to expound upon exactly that issue in my last reply, but took that section out because I thought it was too geeky! My example (for Rohan) was the Invasion of Eastern Rohan by Orcs, which occurred on Rohan territory (and BTW, for history purposes, I include Isengard in Rohan) but didn't involve the Rohirrim: it was Orcs vs Ents. Whereas, the Battle of the Pelennor didn't occur in Rohan, but was critically important to its people (the king died, and potentially a whole generation of Riders could have, too -- and that's not even contemplating what could have happened if the battle was lost). Then I decided: Nobody else but me (er, and now you) would make such a fine distinction. Both those events belong to Rohan in the sense that they were important events to either the territory or the people of Rohan. So, at this point, I think I'd still recommend putting the history of both Gondor and the Gondorians together and call it the History of Gondor. I think it would really confuse users to see a history that didn't include, say, certain (important) things being built, because they found the history through the Gondorians Bio instead of the Gondor Place entry. (I don't think the distinctions we make between types of entries mean much to anyone else.) And I don't want to see two separate, very long-but-mostly-overlapping histories, one for Gondor and one for Gondorians. Them's my 2 pfennig's worth. YMMV (a lot...) *Liz looks at what she's just written and wonders if she should run away screaming now* Yes. Or take my suggestion and don't worry about it... Or, take two aspirin and call [anyone but me] in the morning... Another issue is how I link this into the Gondorians bio. I don't want to make users click twice to get the information (ir click down to the History section in the bio and then have to click somewhere else) but I don't want to throw them out of the bio and into the timeline event without making was clear that's what I'm doing. So how about something along the following lines: — [See Timeline event Gondorians History - Second Age] That looks fine to me -- good idea on cutting down on the clicking! Although I would shorten it to "See entry..." for the reason I mentioned above... that gives notice that it's a separate entry (which you'll open in a new window, right?), without being needlessly specific. And repeating it in the body is a good idea, too. It will keep the History section short, but the info easy to find. - Barbara

 

Hi Barbara I mean that in the Preferred Practices thread, we have two kinds of beasts: Guidelines, such as Lyllyn's Hierarchy of Sources, and my genealogical title standards-to-be, and we have (HTML) Templates, like for wars, footnotes, etc. Should those be two documents, or two sections of the same one? Aha, gotcha! Hmm, I've honestly no great preference either way. Separating them may make it slighlty quicker and easier to find things, but putting them in a single article probably makes it slightly quicker to go from a template to a guideline when considering how to name something or which source to use. Neither of which is a particularly strong reason in favour of one approach or the oither. Umm, that wasn't very helpful, was it. ("Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.") But if you separate them, it makes it easier to ensure the chapters are re-ordered logically rather than having to hope a workshop member would reorder things so all the guidelines are together and all the templates are together . Of course, who is likely to be adding guidelines or templates...? I guess I'm very slightly coming down in favour of separating them. ROTFLOLOLOLOL! Do you have any idea why that's so funny? Because I started to expound upon exactly that issue in my last reply, but took that section out because I thought it was too geeky! *snork* You know, it makes me feel SOOOO much better to know there's at least one other person as crazy/obsessed out there as me. So, at this point, I think I'd still recommend putting the history of both Gondor and the Gondorians together and call it the History of Gondor. Snipping your reasoning, but it makes a lot of sense. (Darn, now I have to do all those "building things" events I was skipping over...) But History of Gondor, covering everything, it is. That looks fine to me -- good idea on cutting down on the clicking! Although I would shorten it to "See entry..." for the reason I mentioned above... that gives notice that it's a separate entry (which you'll open in a new window, right?), without being needlessly specific. Good, and yes, I wondered about cutting out "Timeline event" after I'd posted, but couldn't be bothered to edit. And yes to opening the entry in a separate window. Off to reorganise things.... Cheers, Liz

 

Hi all, I've added a new story to the Workshop, Edit: Resources: Tools and Templates to try out our ideas with the templates, and added the Wars and Battles template, with both annotated and blank versions. Some questions: on the annotated version of the template, I allowed the Table of Contents and headings to display as they would in a final entry, but with the descriptions. Then, on the blank version (the next page), the underlying HTML is available for copying. Do you like it this way? Also, I modified the template slightly to more easily allow two separate types of Notes sections: either one with plain text, or numbered (and hyperlinked) footnotes -- or both. The examples demonstrate both. (I will do the same to all the templates -- got tired of looking up separately how to do the numbered notes.) And on the name: we settled on "Preferred Practices in Resources" for the thread name in the old forum, but I'm concerned that "Preferred Practices in Resources: Templates" and "Preferred Practices in Resources: Guidelines" are unwieldy titles. How about "Resources Preferred Practices: Templates", etc.? (The first name was just Preferred Practices: Templates, but when I saw it in the main Stories list, I thought it should be a little more specific.) Or, should the guidelines (e.g. Lyllyn's sources hierarchy, my genealogical titles) be called "Preferred Practices in Resources", and the templates be called "Resources Tools and Templates", or something like that? - Barbara

 

Hi Barbara Excellent start Some questions: on the annotated version of the template, I allowed the Table of Contents and headings to display as they would in a final entry, but with the descriptions. Then, on the blank version (the next page), the underlying HTML is available for copying. Do you like it this way? I like the separation into the two chapters: being able to see how the thing should display and work, and then just being able to copy and paste the necessary code. I'd suggest a slight renaming of the chapter titles to "[Template Name]: annotated sample" and ""[Template Name]: HTML" to make clearer what is in each chapter. Or, should the guidelines (e.g. Lyllyn's sources hierarchy, my genealogical titles) be called "Preferred Practices in Resources", and the templates be called "Resources Tools and Templates", or something like that? I like these two suggestions. If you would prefer them to both sort under Resources, you could make it "Resources: Preferred Practices". HTH Cheers, Liz

 

Excellent start Thanks, Liz! I'd suggest a slight renaming of the chapter titles to "[Template Name]: annotated sample" and ""[Template Name]: HTML" to make clearer what is in each chapter. Good idea! Because I want to identify the type of entry first, I've renamed the current chapters "Event - Wars and Battles: annotated sample" and "Event - Wars and Battles: HTML". I like these two suggestions. If you would prefer them to both sort under Resources, you could make it "Resources: Preferred Practices". Ah, good. I've renamed the current story "Resources: Tools and Templates" (although I'm not really sure if we'll come up with any tools other than templates...?), and we can name the guidelines one "Resources: Preferred Practices". Liz, have you considered adding your Citations for Tolkien's Writings "story" into the Workshop? - Barbara

 

Hi all, I found and corrected an error in the Notes section of the HTML template for Battles and Wars Events. - Barbara Note: Er, I obviously "edited" this message, instead of "replying" to it... sorry, don't remember what was here before, but I hope it wasn't quite as much of a non-sequitur as this is...

 

Hi Barbara All the changes look good! And putting in the notes superscript code is very helpful. As for whether we'll have tools other than templates, I guess we might! The citations are a tool as well, although they're probably best in a separate story. Liz, have you considered adding your Citations for Tolkien's Writings "story" into the Workshop? Err, yes, I considered it but never got round to doing anything about it! I've added it now. Oh, and just a thought - could you set up a chapter with the HTML for doing links to each kind of entry (bios, events, things and places). While I usually copy, paste and edit from something else I have open, this would be very helpful when I've just created an entry and want to link to it on the site. Edit: And a second thought - would it be helpful to link to one or more "real" examples of the template in use from the "annotated samples" chapters - especially if you can show that you don't need to use all the sections if there's no need (eg the Variags of Khand bio) Cheers, Liz

 

All the changes look good! And putting in the notes superscript code is very helpful. Thank you, Liz! Yes, I got tired of having to look in yet another place for the superscript code when I was compiling an entry... As for whether we'll have tools other than templates, I guess we might! Good, thanks! I'll leave the name as "Resources: Tools and Templates". I've added it now. Thanks! It'll be good to have one place to find all the Resources tools, including the Citations. Oh, and just a thought - could you set up a chapter with the HTML for doing links to each kind of entry (bios, events, things and places). Do you mean something like: "if a Bio is at this address: then your link should look like this"? Sure, I can do that. And a second thought - would it be helpful to link to one or more "real" examples of the template in use from the "annotated samples" chapters - especially if you can show that you don't need to use all the sections if there's no need (eg the Variags of Khand bio) Let me think about that... Might it be better to have a separate chapter with an overview of the templates, sort of like "How to Use These Templates", where I can mention that not all entries will need everything -- and link to examples, too. How does that sound? - Barbara

 

I added a chapter to the Resources: Tools and Templates story, called "Quick Reference: Creating an HTML Link to a Resources Entry". It's very short. Let me know if you have suggestions. - Barbara

 

Might it be better to have a separate chapter with an overview of the templates, sort of like "How to Use These Templates", where I can mention that not all entries will need everything -- and link to examples, too. How does that sound? Yes - an introduction chapter would be good. In case we indoctrinate any other poor souls into research geekdom, we should make it clear these are starting points that are supposed to help researchers organise quotes into entries (which they do) rather than something that needs to be rigorously and exhaustively followed. I added a chapter to the Resources: Tools and Templates story, called "Quick Reference: Creating an HTML Link to a Resources Entry". Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you! Cheers, Liz

 

I am reprinting an email, with Meril's gracious permission: > --- elanialstar@yahoo.com wrote: Noble research geek(s), Thanks to too much caffeine and a long-avoided nuzgul, I will have you know that your meticulously detailed resources section was the final catalyst for my staying up til most ungodly hours writing. The wealth of information, by all the Valar! I found just what I needed on Silmarien, the palantiri, the founding of Numenor, the geography of Numenor, and the respective ages of Tar-Elendil, Tar-Meneldur, and Ancalime. Addtionally, I found the marriage date of Silmarien as well as the birth date of Tar-Meneldur, which led me to fix a small canon error. As a result, I am rather tired, yet feverishly delighted at how my stories are progressing (thanks to perusing your section again this morning, I suddenly found myself writing *two* long-avoided nuzgul instead of the *one* I originally took up last night. And I have no recollection of opening the second document.) Sincerely yours, Allie PS- Please pass this on to all your minions/cohorts. I am spreading the blame equally on all of you. PPS to Minion Liz- I still refuse to enter events. Refuse, I say! Keep your neferious suggestions, for I have no use for them! From: Meril --- And we'll get you yet with Resource!nuzgul. We are obsessive in pursuit of our goals, after all.

 

Excellent Thanks for sharing. PPS to Minion Liz- I still refuse to enter events. Refuse, I say! Keep your neferious suggestions, for I have no use for them! Hmm, maybe I should threaten to remove the Pre-Second Age Chronologes article, which she was so very excited to discover, from general availability on the site. (I could make it off-list, so it would only be available through this workshop. ) And only let her have access to it if she enters some of those events.... Cheers, Minion Liz

 

I will have you know that your meticulously detailed resources section was the final catalyst for my staying up til most ungodly hours writing. Music to my obsessive heart... I found just what I needed on Silmarien, the palantiri, the founding of Numenor, the geography of Numenor, and the respective ages of Tar-Elendil, Tar-Meneldur, and Ancalime. Wow! (Hmmm, maybe it was worth my going off on that unexpected and unwanted "geography of Númenor" tangent (er, "tangent" is the wrong word, because geometric tangents are supposed to touch the circle you're working in...) that kept me up to all hours several nights a few months back, when I was supposed to be working on the Rohirrim entry... which I have yet to touch... even tangentially...) - Minion #7

 

Hi all, I found an error in the Notes section of the Wars and Battles template and corrected it. - Barbara

 

Hi everyone! Daw the Minstrel is starting a new story called A Spring of Joy (from a quote from The Hobbit, of course). I left her a review and this is part of her reply: I've thought of you often in the last few days as I planned out parts of this story. I keep going to HASA and checking out what you have in Resources about things like the Nazgul. It's so great to have a source that actually relies on Tolkien. I've posted her comment here (with her permission) so we could all bask in the warm feelings together! - Barbara

 

Thank you, Barbara, and also thank Daw! And of course, if Daw has any idea on how to change around the section to make it even better.... Lyllyn

 

Excellent. Please pass on my thanks to Daw as well. Hmm, it might help to know how Daw uses the section to find the information she wants, since it obviously does work for her at the moment (and it works for us too, of course). After all, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater if there are things people currently find useful. Cheers, Liz

 

Hi All

In case you didn't see it., Raksha wrote a post over in the Birthday Cards thread describing how "some poking around in the HASA Resources section" inspired her to write the very lovely mega-mega drabble she posted there.

As Barbara said to me in IM: "WOOOOOHOOOOOO!"

Cheers, Liz
(Happy Resource geek)

 

Second the WOOOHOOO!

Lyllyn

 

Ok, getting ready to take up Places again. Any nominations for needed places? Mind you, no guarantees, here.

Lyllyn

 

Hi Lyllyn

Places I have on my "to-do" list are:

Cuiviénen
Belegaer
Esgalduin
Region
Aros and/or Fords of Aros
Ascar/Rathloriel
Sarn Athrad

I also have notes to check that we've entered all the realms within Beleriand (as described in Ch 14 of Quenta Silmarillion) and to look at whether we need more quotes for the quick-and-dirty entry I did for Menegroth and for the existing Beleriand entry.

No promises, but if you do some of these, I might then be tempted to go on a spree of entering First Age events. (Or I may just get sidetracked by finishing off Kings and Stewards of Gondor....)

HTH

Cheers, Liz

 

Hi! I'm sorry, Lyllyn, but it looks like I didn't keep any notes about what Places I wanted to do, and in the time that I've been inactive, my mind let go of them....

Looking at Liz's list, I remember entering a very quick-and-dirty entry for Belegaer; please feel free to replace it and remove my name.

Also, I did add the geographical overview of West and East Beleriand from the Silm to the Beleriand entry, so it's probably not in any dire need of geographical quotes or links anytime soon... but maybe political or historical.

I do believe that not all the rivers in Ossiriand are there (which reminds me, I want to do an event about the Ents attacking the Dwarves someday Edit: Liz got there before me... Cool!)...

HTH
- Barbara

Edit: I've created a new thread, To Do: Places, and started moving our ideas there. Please continue the discussion about Places that we'd like to add to the database there.

 

I've created a new thread, To Do: Places, and started moving our ideas there. Please continue the discussion about Places that we'd like to add to the database there.

You are amazing!

Lyllyn

 

You are amazing!

I was worried I'd scared you away....

- Barbara

 

Well, I didn't promise I'd actually do what you posted...

Lyllyn

 

Nice work on the new entries, Barbara!!

Lyllyn

 

Thanks, Lyllyn!

I'm still working (off and on, mostly off ) on a couple new ones... including an overview of the Last Alliance!

It's all Marta's fault... she made me join a challenge about the Mouth of Sauron... so, I started splitting out a new Black Númenórean entry from the King's Men entry.... and it's all been downhill from there....

- Barbara

 

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