Forum: Deconstructing Denethor

Discussing: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

This is where you go to alert your fellow members of a Denethor-centric nuzgûl. I'll start: Denethor: l'enfant terrible? is a nuzgûl asking for some sort of enlightening story about Denethor's childhood. Pre-Thorongil, pre-war, pre-training for war, even: what was Denethor like? This is just as a courtesy, you know, to those who were unable to participate in the "Son of Ecthelion" challenge. I wouldn't want you to feel left out.

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

This is just as a courtesy, you know, to those who were unable to participate in the "Son of Ecthelion" challenge. I wouldn't want you to feel left out. How accommodating of you, Dwim. "A car in every garage and a nuzgul in every pot," that's your slogan. ;-) In all seriousness, though, for such an Aragorn devotee as you seem to be, you have become rather preoccupied with Denethor.Not that I'm complaining, and not that you haven't written Denethor in the past, but... I must say, I'm impressed. Is the labyrinth of ethical quandaries and philosophical layers that is Denethor converting you to his camp? Probably not, but it's worth a shot. At any rate, yes, write this. (Dwim, or someone else) It would be refreshing to see aportrayal of youthful!Denethor besides the one currently playing in my own head. Marta

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

"A car in every garage and a nuzgul in every pot," that's your slogan. ;-) Screw the car, have another nuzgûl. In all seriousness, though, for such an Aragorn devotee as you seem to be, you have become rather preoccupied with Denethor.Not that I'm complaining, and not that you haven't written Denethor in the past, but... I must say, I'm impressed. Is the labyrinth of ethical quandaries and philosophical layers that is Denethor converting you to his camp? Probably not, but it's worth a shot. Oh, I consider myself a fully fledged Denethor fangirl (or fangurl, whichever). He interests me as Aragorn's one true rival (as opposed to enemy) in the world—Denethor's a worthy opponent, his shadow side, the flip-side without yet being evil in the sense that Saruman or Sauron were evil. And yes, the ethical quandaries Denethor can get into/be made to get into are just far too appealing, as is the fact that he's obviously brilliant (save for a few tragic blind spots). Basically, I like him *because* he is dysfunctional in my universe—brilliantly dysfunctional, with a lot of responsibility, and absolutely driven. Alas, I've not had much luck coming up with a story involving Denethor's childhood. Voracious reader, possible collector of weird bugs, probably thought math was free entertainment, and I suspect him of being one of those kids who cannot stand to be helped in any task. Wants to do it all, and all by himself, which I suspect would make him a rather difficult child to raise. But no story. Sorry. Although, you know, if Gondor had trade with Dale, it would be logical for the Dwarves to send a herald to Gondor to announce the restoration of the King Under The Mountain. There are plenty of "Bilbo meets Estel in Rivendell" fics; why not a "Dwarvish envoy meets young Denethor" story? I throw that out for anyone to take who wants it. Look, it'd be easy--one shot story, no sequels, probably no more than two or three chapters at most (I'd think one would do it). It could even be one of the surviving Thirteen who goes as a senior diplomat. Kill two birds with one stone! Ooh, somebody grab Thevina on this one--she loves Dwarves and might indulge us. Do it, stat! Crap! No, back, BACK beast...! Excuse me, I need to go get my flamethrower...

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Although, you know, if Gondor had trade with Dale, it would be logical for the Dwarves to send a herald to Gondor to announce the restoration of the King Under The Mountain. Dwim, Dwim - I'm ahead of you. I'm giving Gondor trade with the wine merchants of the mysterious land of Dorwinion and will indeed be having them bring news of the death of Smaug, the restoration of the King Under the Mountain and the Battle of the Five Armies (and other events - there's more to this encounter than meets the eye in Liz!verse). So 11 or 12-year old Denethor in summer 2942 is on its way. Well, in about ten fics time.... Maybe. If I can ever finish the first chapter of my "Kinder Gentler Denthor"/"Son of Ecthelion" fic.... And if Marta stops distracting me with angsty!Faramir nuzguls that may not even fit the onlist challenge they were supposed to be for.... *sigh* Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Well, in about ten fics time.... Maybe. See, therein lies the problem... Good luck! [skips off to the happy sound of nuzgul biting someone ELSE]

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Well, in about ten fics time.... Maybe. See, therein lies the problem... The maybe was about the number of fics between now and writing this, not the possibility of whether it will be written (it will).... And for the number of fics, blame your "faithful assistant" (Marta!) for spending far too much time setting nuzguls on her beta group rather than on the HASA population at large. Can you please get her to redirect her energies. Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Screw the car, have another nuzgûl But of course! Always another nuzgûl! And thank you very much for this newest nuzgûl that's biting at me. Really, Dwim, I'm much obliged! Well...I guess I'm off to see what fanfiction insanity I can conjure up now. And once again Dwim, thanks. Thanks a lot....*smirk* ~Denni

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Ooh, somebody grab Thevina on this one--she loves Dwarves and might indulge us. Do it, stat! Crap! No, back, BACK beast...! You amuse me greatly. I really like that idea. Really like that idea. I did touch on childhood!Denethor in passing in A House Divided, and you're right about the Dwarf-love. Hmmmm. Very, very interesting idea, and I love bringing in the Dale element as well. Grrr. I was supposed to be working on something else, y'know... ~Thevina

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

And thank you very much for this newest nuzgûl that's biting at me. Really, Dwim, I'm much obliged! You're welcome, Denni. Thev: Grrr. I was supposed to be working on something else, y'know... And another one bites the dust.

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Ok, it's a stretch, BUT... Denethor was the one who ultimately had to approve and oversee the evacuation of Minas Tirith. Most likely, he also had to decide whether boys of a certain age who wished to stay would be allowed. So, why not write a story about how he dealt with the children of Minas Tirith? This is, by the way, a nuzgûl from Dean (aka Ranger1). I'm sure he would love to hear from you...

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Hey there- I'm mostly lurking these days, but wanted you to know that I'm probably 2/3 the way through "Denethor meets a Dwarf" (titled 'A Taste of Diplomacy,' currently) and in thinking about Denthor at age 13, I had this idea that each of the Stewards post-Denethor I, after Osgiliath was overrun/ruined and the palantir there was lost to Anduin, would have made a rite of passage kind of thing for each son/Steward-to-be for his first view into the palantir at Minas Tirith. But I was looking in my Complete Guide to M-E, which, I know, some people think is not legitimate as a reference, but regardless, the author of that book implies that none of the Stewards looked into the palantir at Minas Tirith once Minas Ithil had been retaken in 2002, until Denethor II. Does this make sense to you, that the palantir at Minas Tirith would remain essentially dormant for 900-some years? I really want to work in (as a separate, short story) a bit about Denethor looking into the palantir for the first time, but I want it to make sense canonically. Help? Conjecture? ~Thevina

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

Hi Thevina The canonical reference to this is Appendix A to LotR (my emphasis) "After her death Denethor became more grim and silent than before, and would sit long alone in his tower deep in thought, foreseeing that the assault of Mordor would come in his time. It was afterwards believed that needing knowledge, but being proud, and trusting in his own strength of will, he dared to look in the palantír of the White Tower. None of the Stewards had dared to do this, nor even the kings Eärnil and Eärnur, after the fall of Minas Ithil when the palantír of Isildur came into the hands of the Enemy; for the Stone of Minas Tirith was the palantír of Anárion, most close in accord with the one that Sauron possessed." There's also some semi-canonical stuff in the Palantiri essay in UT if you'd like me to dig that out as well. Hope that helps. Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Denethor's Nuzgûl Hutch

There's also some semi-canonical stuff in the Palantiri essay in UT if you'd like me to dig that out as well. Yup- I looked at that yesterday. Thank you so much for your quick reply! You've just freed me from a story. Heh.

 

 

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