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Discussing: Queen's Garden

Queen's Garden

Here's a question for all you language mavens.

If  Dor-en-Ernil is "Land of the Prince" what would be "Garden of the Queen" or "Queen's Garden"?

Toodles - Ang 



Re: Queen's Garden

Hi Ang,

Am no Sindarin expert so I bow to any more learned than me who come after me. But according to Hisweloke...

sant = garden
bereth = queen or spouse

Apparently both of these are attested to in Tolkien, though I don't know their abbreviations well enough to give you an exact source. Anyway, using Dor-en-Ernil as a model, how about Sant-en-Bereth? Or is en gender-sensitive? I'm obviously not sure.




Re: Queen's Garden

Marta's suggestion is very good; I would offer only one small tweak. The particle _en_ is subject to mixed mutation, a somewhat confusing process which can at times change _en_ and at others change the following word. In this case it would result in the form _Sant-e-Bereth_.  

Two other possibilities, found in the Etymologies, would be _ Rîn_ (crowned/crowned lady) and _ Rîs_  (queen). Those would seem to come out as _Sant-edh-Rîn_ and _Sant-edh-Rîs_.  Here mixed mutation changes the _en_ to _edh_ before 'r'.

I think Marta's suggestion sounds the best, though.  

Ithildin  *( 



Re: Queen's Garden

Wow, what a combination! Thank you two!

Let's keep playing games here, then. Would "Queen's Land"  be Dor-e-Bereth? Dor-edh-Rîs? How would I construct Queen's Land in the same way as Ithilien or Anorien? (In Sindarin vs. Quenya? Or have I reversed languages again?)

Oh, totally off topic, I had an idea about collecting discussion threads from here in the Research Questions forum and creating themed Research Articles, like ones on geography, on language, on characters, etc. One "chapter" per thread of discussion. Does that make sense?

Toodles - Ang 



Re: Queen's Garden

I'm at a different computer tonight and don't have my resources at hand, but substituting _Dor_ for _Sant_  should work fine in all three examples. 

To make it a compound - I think I would go with _Berethdor_.   I think it would be more recognizable than some of the alterntatives. Words like _Rinnor_ or _Rissor_ (between the more obscure roots and the assimilation of the 'd' in _dor_ ) would be much harder to decipher. It doesn't matter much though, with the meaning provided readers will accept it and go on. It all depends on what kind of word you are looking for.

Note: you probably know this, but FYI, I think suggestions using  _dor_ would probably indicate a land area more like a realm than a garden.  

Re: research articles from threads:
Sounds like a good idea, though I don't know how much work it would be to set up.  I do know there have been some very interesting discussions on a wide range of topics in this forurm and there is a lot of valuable information buried in these threads.  

Ithildin  *(



Re: Queen's Garden

In the Silmarillion,Caranthir's realm was  "Dor Caranthir" , so possibly "Dor Bereth" would also do. There might also be "Hirildor" (Lady's land), or Sant-en-arwen ("Garden of the Noble Woman").



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