Discussing: Extended bios- sign up
Extended bios- sign up
Lyllyn
Message: 2554
05 Jan 03 10:53 AM
Original Post
General Audience
Read-Only
Message: 2554
05 Jan 03 10:53 AM
Original Post
General Audience
Read-Only
The list so far:
Galadriel - Mike Kellner
Denethor - Aralanthiriel
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas
Glorfindel - Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
I've filled in a bunch of Halbarad material. Anyone want to tell me if I'm doing this right?
Also, if I am doing this right, and I've given what you're looking for in a full bio, I should note that setting "Halbarad" to "full bio" makes his entry disappear. So for the moment, he's in the "simple bio" section.
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Eledhwen - I'd like to get a simple bio on Túrin, and then add material and link to essays later. I think many members would be interested in a discussion of the curse or other pertinent issues. Since we are still setting up, I'm not sure if it would be better to put it all in one, or do an extended bio with facts, and then an essay exploring issues which might also contain speculation. I am interested in hearing views on what would be useful if you were using the material, and issues on preparing it.
julesraven, as above, we are still brainstorming template or no. Since we don't have any code in place for this, and I know Ang's got lots else she's working on, we have no time frame. If anyone comes up with an essay prior to getting the code in place, you can do one of two things:
Post it as a general story, with 'Research Article' as the genre. OR
Email it to me and I will hold it until we are ready.
If you do post it as a general story, email me so I know it's there when we are ready to link.
The list so far:
Galadriel - Mike Kellner
Denethor - Aralanthiriel (done)
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas (previously posted)
Glorfindel - Lyllyn (previously posted)
Halbarad - Dwimordene (done)
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Túrin - Eledhwen
Aragorn - Julesraven
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
If you have an essay or bit of extended writing, take a look at the example of Aralanthiriel's Denethor collection, and then put something together. If it is in the database as a chapter, I can work with it in the future. The one thing to be careful of is not to create *mulitple* articles for a single character - there should be multiple chapters inside a single article.
As far as Yllyn and I have thrashed things out, there will be something like this:
Each character in the databse will have a bio fact sheet. This is already in place.
Each character in the database *can* have an "Essay Collection" - which is bascially a fancy way of saying there will be a story (a master listing) dedicated to a character, and that there will be chapters donated by one or more people over time discussing that character. Some thought had been given to making the first couple of chapters standard for each charater - such as an introduction, a discussion of divergent information (Just where *did* Galadriel and Celeboirn first meet?) and then interpretive and information pieces (some very short, others more extensive) that can be added to indefinitely. Since the structure of the collection is the same as a regular research article, this data can begin to be set up right now.
What I have to do is:
1. Create a way to connect a character bio to an essay collection, and then reverse that connection so an essay conenction links back to the bio.
2. Fiddle with control settings so that many people can contribute to a particular collection, instead of only a story auhtor being able to post chapters to their own story. I think it will work something like this. Someone writes up an essay or article. They click over to Ressources and locate the character collection they want to add to. They can click on an "Add Essay/Notes" link, and fill out a standard chapter form. They click "Submit" and it goes in "private" mode to where a researcher and/or admin checks it for spelling, gramar, and tomake sure it is not redundant of material already there for a character. Click, and the chapter becomes "public" and is part of the collection.
The big project (I'm still trying to figure out the datamappings) is going to be timelines - how to make timelines that can stand independently, but are also linked to characters and can have characters linked back to them.
I can also see having the character lists on stories be hyperlinked to the specific character bios and collections.
Oh, dear, don't get me going. I have way too many irons in the fire! :-)
Ang
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Yes! Túrin is one of the characters that cries out for discussion, because of the alternate versions. This should be a great resource for the members.
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Aragorn, Eomer, Eowyn and Thranduil were flagged as characters of interest, with Boromir, Denethor, Gandalf, Gimli and Legolas finishing out the vote-getters.
Ang
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Celeborn - Ying
Denethor - Aralanthiriel (done)
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas (previously posted)
Galadriel - Mike Kellner
Glorfindel - Lyllyn (previously posted)
Halbarad - Dwimordene (done)
Legolas - Ithildin
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Túrin - Eledhwen
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
They are yours Dimmie!
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Celeborn - Ying
Denethor - Aralanthiriel (done)
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas (previously posted)
Galadriel - Mike Kellner
Glorfindel - Lyllyn (previously posted)
Halbarad - Dwimordene (done)
Legolas - Ithildin
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Oropher - Dim Genesis
Thranduil - Dim Genesis
Túrin - Eledhwen
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Look at the nice, shiny object. You will not resist. You will not resist.
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Celeborn - Ying
Denethor - Aralanthiriel (done)
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas (previously posted)
Galadriel - Mike Kellner
Gilraen - Dwimordene
Glorfindel - Lyllyn (previously posted)
Halbarad - Dwimordene (done)
Legolas - Ithildin
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Oropher - Dim Genesis
Thranduil - Dim Genesis
Túrin - Eledhwen
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
I don't suppose it'll help if I tell you it's too late? I already inflicted one of the worst possible on myself.
Unfortunately I suspect with all your experience as a nuzgul purveyor extraordinaire, you will find a more evil one.

Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Celeborn - Ying
Denethor - Aralanthiriel (done)
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas (previously posted)
Elrond - Vicki
Galadriel - Mike Kellner
Gilraen - Dwimordene (done)
Glorfindel - Lyllyn (previously posted)
Halbarad - Dwimordene (done)
Legolas - Ithildin
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Oropher - Dim Genesis
Thranduil - Dim Genesis
Túrin - Eledhwen
Sure you don't want another, Dwim?

Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Re: Extended bios- sign up
*********
Ithildin -
I'm sure you can handle this all on your own, but I have some thoughts on the matter of Legolas myself. If I submitted to you some material about his age, heritage, etc. in an acceptable form, would you consider putting it to use?
Sorry for bothering you.
~~Vikki
**********
Not a bother, Vikki.
I would be most happy to take your material into consideration. Please send it fairly soon, as the first section (which deals with the topics you mentioned) is nearing completion. I look forward to your contributions! Keep in mind that your material could be posted as a separate essay if it doesn’t work out to incorporate it with mine.
I am certainly enjoying working on this project!
Ithildin
Re: Extended bios- sign up
I would be most happy to take your material into consideration. Please send it fairly soon, as the first section (which deals with the topics you mentioned) is nearing completion. I look forward to your contributions! Yay! Thank you - I will be sending a proper essay via e-mail as soon as I can get my thoughts (and the facts) down on paper - or rather, a computer screen.

~~Vikki
Re: Extended bios- sign up
I am certainly enjoying working on this project!
I've written the first part of the essay on matters about Legolas' race. However, as I'm not terribly pleased with it (un-betaed, un ... well, un-everything), I'm putting it up for beta, sending that part to you, and sending it to the list.
And tomorrow (if I'm not drugged to insanity) I'll finish the essay's first draft, including the matter of age .. and then, on to Elrond, Elros, and peredhels in general! *poses heroically as the Nuzgul drag her down*
ugh ... I need a drink of water ...
~~Victoria
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Bombadil Lives!
Dúnedain bio
Re: Dúnedain bio
Current updated list for extended bios:
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Celeborn - Ying
Denethor - Aralanthiriel (posted)
Dunedain - Dwimordene (posted)
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas (posted)
Elrond - Vicki
Faramir - Starlight
Frodo - Combined, Sorrowful Eagle (posted)
Galadriel - Mike Kellner (posted)
Gilraen - Dwimordene (done)
Glorfindel - Lyllyn (posted)
Halbarad - Dwimordene (posted)
Legolas - Ithildin (posted)
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Oropher - Dim Genesis
Thranduil - Dim Genesis
Tom Bombadil - Altariel
Túrin - Eledhwen (posted)
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bio
Re: Extended bio
I just had a quick scan of the bio, and I really like how you separated the contradictions into 3 sections to explain Celeborn's origin.
One part really bothers me though, the part which says (under the Celeborn of Doriath section) "After the final battle of the Last Alliance, Celeborn and his family settled in Lorien, where they became it's guardian Lord and Lady since the death of the king, Amdir, who died in the final battle."
Didn't Galadriel and Celeborn live in Belfalas for a while in the Third Age? It was stated in UT that they didn't go back to Lorien until Amroth was lost.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
~Loqi
Re: Extended bio
No, I think it's more of me super-condensing the Doriath version and forgetting to incorporate Amroth's other history. Thanks for catching that; I'll edit.
Y.
Re: Dúnedain bio
Re: Dúnedain bio
Great!
Be warned, it may take a bit (I'm rather busy at the moment), and I may need help on some of the different versions (I only have Silmarillion, LotR and UT 1, not HoME)
I have HoME 1 through 5, and 12; I'll look for your requests. You can also request information in the 'HoME Reference Requests' discussion in the Resource Forum.
Current list:
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Celeborn - Ying
Denethor - Aralanthiriel (posted)
Dunedain - Dwimordene (posted)
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas (posted)
Elrond - Vicki
Faramir - Starlight
Frodo - Combined, Sorrowful Eagle (posted)
Galadriel - Mike Kellner (posted)
Gil-galad - Kazaera
Gilraen - Dwimordene (posted)
Glorfindel - Lyllyn (posted)
Halbarad - Dwimordene (posted)
Legolas - Ithildin (posted)
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Oropher - Dim Genesis
Thranduil - Dim Genesis
Tom Bombadil - Altariel
Túrin - Eledhwen (posted)
Voronwë - Lyllyn (posted)
Lyllyn
Re: Dúnedain bio
Re: Dúnedain bio
Re: Celeborn bio
Re: Boromir bio
Um. Do I just use the "add a chapter" link in the Research Articles section? What if I wanted to add something to his simple bio?
Rachel, I have changed your site access to 'researcher' which enables you to add to the character bios. If you go to the character bios, you will now see an 'edit' button.
The 'add a chapter' link is for adding to research articles such as the minor character compilations, or any other collaborative projects that get going (so start thinking about any we should do!)
Post or email any questions.
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bio
Re: Extended bio
Happy to have Erendis' bio, Moriel!
You might look at some of the finished extended bios or research articles on individuals.
One way to start is to assemble all available information on your subject. For Erendis most of the information will be in Unfinished Tales. My 'History of Middle-earth Index' only has 2 pages in HoME Vol 11 listed, so you won't find much outside UT.
Once you have all the facts, see if those facts suggest anything else. Conclusions or speculations that are clearly labeled and can be supported by the available information are of great interest.
If you are unsure, you can always post it in Beta and ask here for commentary. You can also email me with any questions, or post them here.
Current list:
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Boromir - Shadow 975
Elrond - Vicki
Erendis - Moriel
Faramir - Starlight
Gil-galad - Kazaera
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Oropher - Dim Genesis
Thranduil - Dim Genesis
Tom Bombadil - Altariel
Already posted:
(but essays exploring aspects of these characters still welcome!)
Celeborn - Ying
Denethor - Aralanthiriel
Dunedain - Dwimordene
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas
Frodo - Combined, Sorrowful Eagle
Galadriel - Mike Kellner
Gilraen - Dwimordene
Glorfindel - Lyllyn
Halbarad - Dwimordene
Legolas - Ithildin
Túrin - Eledhwen
Voronwë - Lyllyn
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bio
Re: Extended bio
Thanks for reminding me, Simbelmynë. Sorry for the confusion.
I think I lost a few updates from this list. Ashe are you out there? I think I lost yours also.
Current list:
Aegnor - Simbelmynë
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Boromir - Shadow 975
Elrond - Vicki
Erendis - Moriel
Faramir - Starlight
Gil-galad - Kazaera
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Oropher - Dim Genesis
Shadowfax - Simbelmynë
Thranduil - Dim Genesis
Tom Bombadil - Altariel
Witch-king - Lyllyn
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bio
Current list:
Aegnor - Simbelmynë
Ancalimë - Aralanthiriel
Aragorn - Julesraven
Boromir - Shadow 975
Elrond - Vicki
Elwë - Ying
Erendis - Moriel
Faramir - Starlight
Gil-galad - Kazaera
Merry and Pippin - Llinos
Olwë - Ying
Oropher - Dim Genesis
Shadowfax - Simbelmynë
Thranduil - Dim Genesis
Tom Bombadil - Altariel
Witch-king - Lyllyn
Already posted:
(but essays exploring aspects of these characters still welcome!)
Celeborn - Ying
Denethor - Aralanthiriel
Dunedain - Dwimordene
Elladan and Elrohir - Tyellas
Frodo - Combined, Sorrowful Eagle
Galadriel - Mike Kellner
Gilraen - Dwimordene
Glorfindel - Lyllyn
Halbarad - Dwimordene
Legolas - Ithildin
Túrin - Eledhwen
Voronwë - Lyllyn
Lyllyn (Pay no heed to author tag, ID swapping is rampant!)
Re: Extended bio
Re: Extended bio

I had forgotten too.
You can still do a bio for minor characters in as much detail as you like, the more the better. Finch already posted one on Olwë in minor characters. If you feel there is more material, it can be added. Of course ::rubs hands:: you could always pick someone else...
Lyllyn (even though it says Dwim, it lies)
Re: Extended bio
Re: Extended bio
Re: Extended bio
Simbelmynë,
I have reposted this in the Character list request discussion.
For future use, the best place is in the Welcome conference (maybe we should move it?) under 'Site improvement suggestions'.
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bio
Re: Extended bio
Re: Extended bios
Re: Extended bios
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Here are my requests, and feel free to move this post if it's misplaced (as I suspect...)
1) Haldir's bio has two related places, Lorien and Lothlorien. Would you (or someone) please copy both of these to the Rumil - Third Age bio? (If I ever find a definitive meaning for R's name, I'll let you know.)
and...
2) Ingwe's spouse is (tentatively, I think) listed as Indis. This should be removed, because Indis is in fact Finwe's 2nd wife. I have yet to figure out if Ingwe's wife is named anywhere -- if I ever find it, I'll send you the info and citation (after adding them to my genealogy, of course!).
Sorry for not typing in the proper accents and umlauts and stuff. I'm tired, and Character Map gets **so** annoying after a while. (Not to mention, on a 1400x1050 monitor, when I'm tired I can't even tell whether I put an accent over an "i" or not. Or is it an umlaut? Or one of those hat thingies? (Dwarvish and Adunaic have entirely too many hat thingies.) Or, for that matter, is it an "l" and not an "i"? These are burning questions late at night...questions that need answering...)
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Don't worrry about the diacritical marks (general description for all of them).
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
Thanks, Lyllyn!
Don't worrry about the diacritical marks (general description for all of them).
Yeah, I know. Usually. When I've had sleep... or coffee. But not too much coffee...
- Barbara
Re: Extended bios- sign up
It's done.
Ingwe's spouse is (tentatively, I think) listed as Indis.
I just checked Ingwe's bio, Indis is listed as his sibling completed with a question mark and "not certain" in brackets.
Good luck with your project!
~Loqi
Re: Extended bios- sign up
It's done.
Ingwe's spouse is (tentatively, I think) listed as Indis.
I just checked Ingwe's bio, Indis is listed as his sibling completed with a question mark and "not certain" in brackets.
Many thanks, Loqi! (And Happy New Year to all!)
Lyllyn
Re: Extended bios- sign up
DOH! Don't know how I misread the Ingwe bio... ;-)
But then, I'm the one who was wondering what Helm Hammerhand's sister's name was (thinking it must be Hilde, since her son's name was Something Hildeson), but realized it (Hild) was **straight** in front of me, in the paragraph I had just been staring at... for far too long, obviously!
Thanks for the good wishes on the project... I didn't expect it to turn into a major obsession... and a crazy-making one, at that!
Happy New Year!
- Barbara
I knew you were going to say that. I'll let you know after I finish Elwë...
) that would be great.