Forum: Prospective Challenges

Discussing: Occasional adult challenge?

Occasional adult challenge?

Over in the "In search of het" thread in the Sexuality in M-e forum, Lyllyn posted : Dwim ::whines:: we really need an occasional adult challenge - could give new meanings to the category of 'Quickies'. I have a vague idea for an adult challenge coming out of a discussion going on in my forum. I made a throwaway remark in one of my stories about an embarrasing meeting between Denethor and Faramir as one is entering and the other leaving a brothel. Several people are now hassling me to write this fic and also one in which Imrahil, Boromir or another relative introduces Faramir to said brothel. Other people have mentioned they are thinking about writing stories involving visits to brothels (Regina and, yes, you Marta!). Of course, Alon has already written some great fics on this topic in her "Closer to Fine" sequence So, my idea is to have a challenge based around a visit to a brothel. Fics could be deadly serious explorations of ths aspect of M-e culture and sexuality, but there would also be plenty of opportunities for humour. I could see a lot of potential to cover different races (all those unmarried dwarves, anyone? and what do the hobbits get up to for Sam's stag party/bucks's night?) and to look at het and slash situations. Also, while the topic is adult, fics would not necessarily need to be graphic or explicit, since the story may end before any sex acts are performed or the sex could be unimportant in the context of the whole story. Dwim, Nessime and Marta - does this have potential? And, if so, can you help shape it up? Cheers, Liz (wondering how wandering into LoTR fanfic seems to have turned her into a sex-obsessed writer)

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Dwim, Nessime and Marta - does this have potential?

::cackles::

Does it have potential, she asks?

Yes, it has potential, if the strength of my own nuzgul is any indication. Get 3 more people to sign up for it (I'm guessing you're willing?) and I'll write mine.

For those who don't read Liz's forum my current idea is teenage-Faramir-in-Dol-Amroth thinks he's going to a restaurant for a dinner away from the family, and finds that it is also a brothel and because of cultural differences ends up in a private upstairs suite with a young lady, without realizing what he's accepted. He and his companion finally get it sorted out, and he leaves. Because he's wearing a cloak of Imrahil's house the "visit" (which never took place) is charged to Imrahil's account. Imrahil traces it back to Faramir. Still not sure exactly how it's resolved, but I'm leaning toward Imrahil bringing Faramir back to said brothel and beginning his education -- someone Faramir's age should know when he's being propositioned!

And, if so, can you help shape it up?

Let's see how many other people are interested. Like I said, you've already got two people willing to write (me and I'm assuming you), so if you can get another three people, we'll take it from there. You know the drill from your Happy Faramir challenge (which has been a success, I think -- good one).

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

[post deleted -- inadvertently posted twice. -M]

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

So, my idea is to have a challenge based around a visit to a brothel.

Fics could be deadly serious explorations of ths aspect of M-e culture and sexuality, but there would also be plenty of opportunities for humour. I could see a lot of potential to cover different races (all those unmarried dwarves, anyone? and what do the hobbits get up to for Sam's stag party/bucks's night?) and to look at het and slash situations.


Sounds like a good idea to me. I'm in--I've had some people requesting a certain encounter between two young gentlemen, and that could as easily take place in a brothel as anywhere else. For that matter, brothels and Imrahil have been a bit of a recurring theme for me. And nothing like having an excuse for writing smut--"The Challenge made me do it."

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Dwim, Nessime and Marta - does this have potential? ::cackles:: Does it have potential, she asks? Well, I was never really in much doubt. Have posted a message in my forum to hassle people to come over here and sign up! Isabeau - SSP that my fic in which Faramir and Eowyn are sneaking around looking for a place to make out and, as you suggested, run into Eomer and Lothiriel also sneaking around looking for a place to make out is now posted here. A big thanks for the suggestion - I would love to have your feedback on how I have handled that scene. Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I would like to go up a level on this and say that whatever happens with this particular nuzgul - and it sounds like it will reach challenge status easily - there should be periodic 'adult' nuzgul. The entries need not be explicit or graphic, although it's fine if they are; they need not ever have a sexual act. But I'd like to see adult subjects tackled.

From the 'In Search of Het' thread there are already two contenders, aside from Tanaqui's brothel idea.

The 'Virginity' nuzgul (retitled by Dwim 'Culture and Sexuality' .
Dwim's Aragorn is " too tired tonight, dear" nuzgul.

Hmmm. I do notice a common thread here: Dwim and Aragorn.

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I would like to go up a level on this and say that whatever happens with this particular nuzgul - and it sounds like it will reach challenge status easily - there should be periodic 'adult' nuzgul.

Absolutely! Why I entitled the thread the way I did and not just "brothel fic"

I was hoping a few other ideas would crawl out of the woodwork (I knew there were some in the "In search of het" thread but was a bit confused about exactly what they were) .

Dwim's Aragorn is " too tired tonight, dear" nuzgul.

Would this be specifically about Aragorn or could it be about any character?(Thinking of Sam and Rosie - with their thirteen children, they clearly weren't too tired that often but I'm sure there would be days with all those children and Sam's mayoral duties when all he would want would be sleep.)

Also wanted to make the point that I don't necessarily equate "adult" with "sexual" - most ethical themes, if tackled seriously, could head into some very deep, dark waters that a casual reader or one who had strong views on a particular topic might be unhappy about venturing in to.

Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Also wanted to make the point that I don't necessarily equate "adult" with "sexual" - most ethical themes, if tackled seriously, could head into some very deep, dark waters that a casual reader or one who had strong views on a particular topic might be unhappy about venturing in to.

Absolutely agree with this. I think that more people have been willing to take on seriously some of the other ethical themes; less so the sexual ones. There are some notably excellent stories out there in either category, but I'd love to see this increase.

Would this be specifically about Aragorn or could it be about any character?

The Aragorn is " too tired tonight, dear" nuzgul was specifically about Aragorn/Arwen, the question of cultural and perhaps physical differences when Aragorn has merely human stamina. Hm, could apply to Luthien/ Beren or Idril/Tuor also. Or Imrazôr/Mithrellas.

Which is not to say that such an idea with a different emphasis couldn't apply to other couples.

And of course more good humorous stories on these issues are good too.

Lyllyn - wondering how she somehow became a chief instigator for sexual fiction. Oh, well; there are worse reputations.

lyllyn

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I think that more people have been willing to take on seriously some of the other ethical themes; less so the sexual ones.

Very true - most of the sexual stuff is PWP rather than "political" or "cultural".

The Aragorn is " too tired tonight, dear" nuzgul was specifically about Aragorn/Arwen, the question of cultural and perhaps physical differences when Aragorn has merely human stamina.

I remember now (sorry, it's a while since I read the whole thread). But, thinking about it and bearing in mind the many and varied readings of LACE and what happens to Elven libido over time (I'm of the "desire to beget children - but not necessarily libido - decreases" camp), is it not also possible that, after bearing at least one son and two daughters, it could be Arwen who "loses interest" (especially as, going by LACE, she is really quite old for childbearing by Elven standards). What if Aragorn is keen for another son to secure the succession (not familiar enough with the generalogy to know if there is a son other than Eldarion, so I could be talking rubbish here) but Arwen doesn't feel up to the task....?

rambling, Liz

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

It looks like we currently have three "yea's": myself, Liz, and Isabeau. Lyllyn were you agreeing to write a story, or just commenting?

I'd like to promote this over at HA. Liz, do I have your permission to quote your original post summing up the idea?

Marta

PS- Keep it up and you will soon be almost as feared as the rest of the Nuzgul squad. And yes, I'm crediting you -- otherwise they'll think it's my idea.

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Lyllyn were you agreeing to write a story, or just commenting?

For the brothel story - just commenting. I've already got a fierce bite from the 'Aragorn's Virginity' Nuzgul that I have to take care of.

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Hi Marta

I'd like to promote this over at HA. Liz, do I have your permission to quote your original post summing up the idea?

You do indeed. And if there's anything you want to pull out of my posts over on the thread in my forum, you're welcome to raid that as well.

PS- Keep it up and you will soon be almost as feared as the rest of the Nuzgul squad. And yes, I'm crediting you -- otherwise they'll think it's my idea.

LOL not a problem. I'm fed up that every time I write a fic people like, my reward is for people to start trying to set further nuzgul on me. So I am happy for it to be known that I am capable of deflecting them onto the group as a whole

Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

From the 'In Search of Het' thread there are already two contenders, aside from Tanaqui's brothel idea.

Well in search of het myself and beset with a submissive, willing and begging Legolas nuzgul, you can deal me in. My offering will be strict PWP. I've been forced to write entirely too much plot lately (LIZ!) LOL

anyone interested in Legolas gets to see the brothel mistress fic?...

~Lady Aranel~

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Neh? Huh? S'ppose I should look at the other forum sometime soon.

Hmm... Well, we'll see how many people volunteer. I think we have four already, yes? Tanaqui, Marta, Isabeau, and Aranel, I believe. No promises here, although I swear to you if I get this one fic done, it is going either here or in Mary Sue Nuzgûl. Any other takers or people with suggestions on how to do this?

The one difficulty I have with adult challenges is simply that I tend to see it as a "you get what you ask for" deal: ask for adult, and you get a flood of PWPs because what else could adult mean? I'm not saying PWPs have no purpose or can't be done well, though ultimately I'm not hugely a fan of them, but it's such an easy slide from adult to PWP that the risk seems to be that saying that would get almost exclusively PWPs every single time. I have no idea how to word a challenge to avoid that without being very vague, and yet restrictions on setting or whatnot are not as much to my liking because it seems to take a little more creativity just to get the subject of sex to show itself, period *if* one is focusing on cultural restrictions or permissiveness.

There is one other question that is more a question of covering our rears: not all of us are legally adults, here. Should there be a note that if you're not old enough to legally read smut, you shouldn't be writing it for this Challenge?

Hmmm. I do notice a common thread here: Dwim and Aragorn

Moi? Obsessed with Aragorn? Naaaaah, surely you jest, Lyllyn...

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Will this challenge be restricted to brothel fics? Is that the idea?

Dwim, you are going to need that warning, especially if the idea is that this challenge head to the public side.

I agree that the restrictions on setting might be overly restrictive. I have a vision of summaries that read something like:

Aragorn goes to a brothel
Faramir goes to a brothel
Legolas goes to a brothel
Legolas AND Faramir goes to a brothel.

It might be better to broaden the scope of the challenge. Make it a simple hetsex challenge, perhaps?

Happy Faramir was fun because there were no restrictions on how to make Faramir happy, the only restriction was he could not suffer angst.

Perhaps we could simply challenge authors to submit a hetsex fic that is NOT merely PWP.

My guess is that people may choose to write fresh stories or they may choose to enter stories they have already written and have lying about in the beta or general stacks.

Perhaps I misremember, but does not the Mary Sue Challenge specify that it should be an OFC that is NOT a Mary Sue. Or am I hallucinating? Is it even a challenge?

Lindorien

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Perhaps we could simply challenge authors to submit a hetsex fic that is NOT merely PWP.

Humm.. what does that mean exactly?

If the main focus of the story is a sexual encounter does that mean that there is no plot?

Just wondering...

~Lady Aranel~

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

It might be better to broaden the scope of the challenge. Make it a simple hetsex challenge, perhaps?

Happy Faramir was fun because there were no restrictions on how to make Faramir happy, the only restriction was he could not suffer angst.

Perhaps we could simply challenge authors to submit a hetsex fic that is NOT merely PWP.


That seems too broad a challenge. I'd like to narrow it some - if so many people are taken with the brothel idea we should consider some nod to that.

I'll throw out bait, but I'm sure someone can better it:
Sexual initiation in Middle-earth (or Aman) - any race
Where sex and economic issues intersect
OR we could broaden it to 'coming of age' stories, in whatever manner.

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

If the main focus of the story is a sexual encounter does that mean that there is no plot?

Not certain what the question is there, Lady Aranel. I had the impression that Dwim was concerned that the brothel challenge would only include PWP. I thought it would be more interesting to have a challenge in which the fic is not merely PWP. Others may disagree. Good hetsex fics are fairly scarce, but there is tons of PWP out there. Not that PWP isn't good, it is simply limited in scope.

As far as what the main focus of a story would be, that would be up to the author to decide.

I am not following all the discussion regarding this topic, but I have the impression that people would like to read some good hetsex and somebody suggested making it a challenge. Personally, I'd like to see the authors challenged to do more with the hetsex than write a PWP, but its up to those that want to participate in the challenge.

Does that explain better, or am I muddying (sp?) the waters?

Best,
lindorien

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Umm, I think the original point of the challenge (as I saw and harking back to the post I did that kicked off this thread) was to explore sexuality in M-e by looking at the role of brothels, courtesans and prostitutes and at characters' reactions to prostitution.

To repeat myself:

imy idea is to have a challenge based around a visit to a brothel.

Fics could be deadly serious explorations of ths aspect of M-e culture and sexuality, but there would also be plenty of opportunities for humour. I could see a lot of potential to cover different races (all those unmarried dwarves, anyone? and what do the hobbits get up to for Sam's stag party/bucks's night?) and to look at het and slash situations.

Also, while the topic is adult, fics would not necessarily need to be graphic or explicit, since the story may end before any sex acts are performed or the sex could be unimportant in the context of the whole story.


In the fic I have in mind, I actually didn't see me writing ANY sex at all. And as I'm coming round to the idea of doing it from Denethor's POV, I doubt it will even count as hetfic (sorry, Lyllyn)

Yes, there will probably be some PWPs and why not? But I really don't see that all the stories have to go that way if the challenge is worded to encourage people in other directions.

Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

That seems too broad a challenge. I'd like to narrow it some - if so many people are taken with the brothel idea we should consider some nod to that.

Respectfully, I think the very broadness is the appeal -- as it was with Happy Faramir which attracted quickly and continues to attract a wide range of story ideas and styles, from parody to humor to serious to 'let the other guy angst'. It definitely grabbed people's imaginations.

Those that have postulated brothel ideas could very much be a part of the challenge, as could those that have other ideas as to what might constitute good hetsex.

But, I shall bow out at this point and let others define it as they like. I would be interested in joining a more broad-based challenge.

Best,
Lindorien

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Umm, I think the original point of the challenge (as I saw and harking back to the post I did that kicked off this thread) was to explore sexuality in M-e by looking at the role of brothels, courtesans and prostitutes and at characters' reactions to prostitution.

Ah, I missed that. Perhaps I am mixing this thread up with one that Lyllyn had talking about having adult challenges?

Very well I leave you to it. Should be fun!

Enjoy everybody!

Best,
Lindorien


 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

If the main focus of the story is a sexual encounter does that mean that there is no plot?

Not necessarily. Check out Anais_Lacquestar's Down Like Rain for an example of a story (Silm-based) that's definitely got a plot but is primarily about a sexual encounter.

The thing that concerns me about this suggestion is that a brothel fic isn't necessarily all that sexual. The one I'm planning is more about how acceptable brothels are, and there will be nothing below the waist in it (well, possibly implied, but nothing explicit below the waist). Now if we're going to a hetsex fic I'm concerned that it won't fit the challenge.

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

If the main focus of the story is a sexual encounter does that mean that there is no plot?

Not necessarily. Check out Anais_Lacquestar's Down Like Rain for an example of a story (Silm-based) that's definitely got a plot but is primarily about a sexual encounter.

The thing that concerns me about this suggestion is that a brothel fic isn't necessarily all that sexual. The one I'm planning is more about how acceptable brothels are, and there will be nothing below the waist in it (well, possibly implied, but nothing explicit below the waist). Now if we're going to a hetsex fic I'm concerned that it won't fit the challenge.

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Ah, I missed that. Perhaps I am mixing this thread up with one that Lyllyn had talking about having adult challenges?

Possibly I was merely picking up on Lyllyn's desire for occasional adult themed challenges (and I did also try to make the point halfway through the thread that adult does not necessarily equal sexual but any challenging "ethical" issue - I have one or two non-sexual ideas if people want them) and proposing the brothel-related fic as the first one.

Dwim - I totally understand your concerns about NOT just attracting PWP and agree that the challenge would need to be worded carefully to prevent that.

My understanding of the fics suggested so far (and I hope no-one feels I am traducing their proposals here) is that:

* my "embarrasment fic" is only incidentally about what takes place in the brothel and much more about the Gondorian nobility's attitudes to pre-marital sex and Denethor and Faramir's difficulties in dealing with each other's sexuality. Probably NO sex scenes at all. Definitely not a PWP
* Marta's is more about customs and cultural differences in various parts of Gondor in the first half, although shading into hetfic/smut/PWP in the second half
* from Isabeau's brief summary, it sounds like it would be simple slash PWP (but when is anything Isabeau writes that simple )
* Aranel wants to write a good Legolas PWP to counteract all the fangirl Legomances

Over in my forum, Regina (who I was hoping to tempt in here to sign up) was talking about a fic in which Faramir takes the hobbits, Gimli and Legolas to a brothel - and the big folk's expectations of what the women of Gondor find attracive is confounded.... which is possibly less about sexuality in M-e and more about our perceptions of sexuality in M-e (and who is a sexual being)..

So I'm seeing only half the stories here being PWP/smut/hetfic at the moment.

Does that make any kind of sense?

Liz (now wondering why she started this thread!)

Edit The thing that concerns me about this suggestion is that a brothel fic isn't necessarily all that sexual. The one I'm planning is more about how acceptable brothels are, and there will be nothing below the waist in it (well, possibly implied, but nothing explicit below the waist). Now if we're going to a hetsex fic I'm concerned that it won't fit the challenge.

Oops, Marta, we obviously were posting at the same time and I have traduced your fic. Sorry!

But the whole "how acceptable are brothels" was definitely the angle I was coming from in proposing this challenge.

I think a general "hetfic challenge" may be MORE likely to produce PWP.


 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Edit The thing that concerns me about this suggestion is that a brothel fic isn't necessarily all that sexual. The one I'm planning is more about how acceptable brothels are, and there will be nothing below the waist in it (well, possibly implied, but nothing explicit below the waist). Now if we're going to a hetsex fic I'm concerned that it won't fit the challenge.

Oops, Marta, we obviously were posting at the same time and I have traduced your fic. Sorry!


Not a problem. Heck, I'm not really sure what I'm doing at this point. Why should I expect you to be?

The truth is, I played with the idea of making the sex part more explicit than I plan to, but there really didn't seem a point to. We're talking about a girl in a brothel that Faramir has met once before in his life (if that -- not sure if his two encounters will even be the same women at this point), and since they don't have a lot of history, I'm not sure how I'm going to accomplish a lot by being overly graphic.

But the whole "how acceptable are brothels" was definitely the angle I was coming from in proposing this challenge.

That's what I thought you were after. Since it's your challenge, I'm going to run with that idea when I "suggest" this nuzgul over at HA shortly. (I wanted to make sure I was plugging the right thing.)

I think a general "hetfic challenge" may be MORE likely to produce PWP.

Probably less actual PWP, but more PWLP (Porn With Little Plot). Liz, I'd put your "Later" in this category: it definitely had a plot (the various frustrations finding a suitable place) but that was really subordinate to the smut. Compare to Alon's "Box of Rain", which was rather erotic and had a good sex scene toward the end of it, but the plot could have functioned without that scene -- the smut was subordinate to the plot. (For the record I really enjoyed both these pieces, about equally as a matter of fact -- they're just different, one's not better than the other).

I think maybe we can loosen up the challenge a little bit, though. Box of Rain is a good example that deals with how a society views a brothel without actually being set in one. The premise is that Boromir had fallen in love with a prostitute and taken her as a lover; Faramir had to take news of his brother's death to her, and there's some really interesting interaction between Faramir and Boromir's lover because Faramir does not approve of prostitution. The piece doesn't take place in a brothel, but it's very much about how society views courtesans and the like. how would you feel about a story like this in the challenge?

But my original point. I'm not sure you'd get so much PWP as stories that leaned toward more porn than plot, if that makes any sense.

Rambling,

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I'm having a bit of trouble untangling all this, so I'm going to say what I think I see, and everyone can jump in and correct me:

A het-sex challenge would give a very broad range (along the lines of 'write a het relationship in M-e' but would focus on sex.

A brothel challenge would focus on the brothel, not necessarily set there, although that's an option; not necessarily involving sex though that's equally an option. The brothel challenge could be PWP, cultural, economic, romance, angst, what have you.

I would champion the brothel challenge at this point, or some equivalent way of narrowing it. I would expect that there could be periodic 'adult themed' challenges, and many types of interesting fics would come from this.

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I would champion the brothel challenge at this point, or some equivalent way of narrowing it.

I don't think I understood at all what everybody was talking about. I thought you had put out a call for a hetsex challenge and then everybody started talking brothels. Then Dwim was concerned about it all being PWP.

It doesn't matter. It is what I get for wandering into the middle of a conversation. I'm certain the brothel challenge participants will have a fine time.

I'd love to see a hetsex fic challenge sometime in which there would be more to the fic than just PWP, because there isn't enough worthwhile hetfic out there, but 'We always have Paris," as he said, looking soulfully into her eyes.

Hmmm...THAT could be a cool challenge -- past loves coming back to bite one on the backside, metaphorically speaking.

Maybe what I mean is 'Tomorrow is another day!'

Have fun everybody!

Best,
Lindorien

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I'd love to see a hetsex fic challenge sometime in which there would be more to the fic than just PWP, because there isn't enough worthwhile hetfic out there...

I concur with both of these points. I think it will make it easier if you narrow it further, though.

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I concur with both of these points. I think it will make it easier if you narrow it further, though.

LOL! I did!

Hmmm...THAT could be a cool challenge -- past loves coming back to bite one on the backside, metaphorically speaking.

Call it the "We'll Always Have Paris" challenge.

I'm in.

If you're in, O Seeker of Hetsex Fic, that's two!

Best,
Lindorien

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

If you're in, O Seeker of Hetsex Fic, that's two!

Wait a minute, here. I said I want to read them, not write them. And I still have the Virginity Nuzgul, and I've got a possible plan for the brothel challenge, and ...

Let me think about it.

Could you hold onto this and spring it after the first one is underway?

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Over in my forum, Regina (who I was hoping to tempt in here to sign up) was talking about a fic in which Faramir takes the hobbits, Gimli and Legolas to a brothel - and the big folk's expectations of what the women of Gondor find attracive is confounded.... which is possibly less about sexuality in M-e and more about our perceptions of sexuality in M-e (and who is a sexual being).

{Groans loudly}

No, no, no--I've already got my one placeholder, damnit! Let me write the story first, for pity's sake, then I may enter it. It's more about the comedy, anyway, since it's a sequel to two other stories by Aratlithiel & Ariel that are very funny.

{Sighs & scurries off}

Regina

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Could you hold onto this and spring it after the first one is underway?

Sure, O Holder of the Nuzgul! And I'll tell everybody else to hold it also, though they may find themselves passing frustrated!

Lindorien whispers offstage -- "Hey Everybody! Hands to yourselves! We gotta wait!"

(multiple groans, moans and protests are heard above the rustling of everybody tugging their clothing back into place.)

Just let them...er...ME know when they...er *I* might proceed, Fair Lyllyn!

Regina! I read those stories and they ARE funny. Very very funny! And it is well-known how well I like funny!

Does that make you number 5 on the Brothel Challenge?

Does that mean it can now get underway?

Stage whisper to those waiting in the wings: "Don't perk up! I'm doing what I can here! Everybody has to wait their turn."

(more moans and groans and protests heard from the stage right)

Lindorien


 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Could you hold onto this and spring it after the first one is underway?

Sure thing!

: Back! Back into the hutch with thee, spawn of Melkor! Your day shall come, but back!

It's not listening, guys. I'll try to lure it back in, though.

And don't worry, we will remember to drag this one back out.

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Sure, O Holder of the Nuzgul! And I'll tell everybody else to hold it also, though they may find themselves passing frustrated!

Lindorien, get hold of yourself!

Er... no, that's what's causing the impatience isn't it?

Well, go ahead and write it, that's never been the problem. Just don't work on recruiting me right now! And I think a few others -Regina, Lady Aranel, Marta, Tanaqui- may be similarly booked up. Let everyone get softened up by considering brothels and the males who frequent them, then sic the nuzgul onto them.

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Well, go ahead and write it, that's never been the problem.

Am writing frantically, preciousss. Sssimply doesss not wantss to be forced to write five fics to meet challenge requirements.

Sam walks by, "Um, Lindorien, listen, my past love is not sitting well with Rosie. Could you, um, RESOLVE the situation soon? Because you see, me and the missus, well our anniversary is coming up and all and..."

"Goodness, Sam! Don't bellyache to me! 'Tis all of them who aren't letting the matter settle."

(sound of whispering off-stage)

"Aragorn? What? When did all that happen? During the thirty years between meeting Arwen and betrothing to her? Have I got that story right? uh huh, uh huh..." Lindorien scribbles frantically.

Hurry, Lyllyn! They are gaining on me. Its getting noisy in here and I need to get some sleep!"

Clamoring in the wings gets louder. In desperation, Lindorien shoves a pallet full of word processors off-stage. "Get started, I'll be around to show you how to load and save in a minute."

Boromir wanders onstage holding a keyboard. "Explain to me, dear lady, if you will, what is meant by 'Fatal Error'?"

 

 

first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

Just a quick note… the first chapter of my piece "Summer Nights" is up in HASA Beta here. You may comment at my forum if you like.

The basic premise is that a 17-year-old Faramir visiting his uncle in Dol Amroth stops in at an inn for a quick bite to eat and, because of cultural differences, engages a prostitute without realizing it. This story is about the results of that encounter.

The story has an adult rating because it may have objectionable material in later chapters, but this chapter contains nothing objectionable, besides being set in a brothel.

Marta

 

 

Re: first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

Hmm, I go off and do necessary things like sleep and you all start posting madly. Trying to reply to everyone and help sort this challenge out.

Lyllyn wrote: A brothel challenge would focus on the brothel, not necessarily set there, although that's an option; not necessarily involving sex though that's equally an option. The brothel challenge could be PWP, cultural, economic, romance, angst, what have you.

Yes - may I suggest the wording "a story related to a visit to a brothel or prostitute but not necessarily covering the visit itself". That would then encompass Alon's "Box of Rain", as cited by Marta, as well as all the fics suggested here.

I'm actually now less worried about PWP than that the fics suggested seem to predominantly relate to Faramir (and/or other members of the Steward's family) and/or Legolas visiting a brothel. This was not meant to be a "let poor Faramir have sex" challenge. No, really, it wasn't, honest!!

Marta suggested I link to a thread in my forum where there is some related discussion about this, including where the thinking for the nuzgul as a whole and my fic in particular came from.

I would love to see someone who knows more about dwarves write the dwarven one. And find out how hobbits' love of the "good life" relates to paid-for sex. And where, may I ask, are the gigolo stories? Come on, lets have a bit of gender equality here - although the lack of female canon characters probably counts against that!

And I would also put in a vote for Lindorien's idea for a hetsex fic on the basis of "We'll always have Paris" (not saying I'm going to write one, just saying I think it's a great way to define and narrow the idea somewhat).

Regina Sorry! I thought you were more advanced with this story that you were, since you first mentioned it a few weeks back.... please don't let me scare away your muse as I really want to read this one. And if we define the challenge correctly, humour will be perfect.

Liz (hoping this post makes some kind of sense)

PS Lindorien - do you not already have an entry for this challenge in the poem you originally submitted for "Happy Faramir"? Which I thought was hilarious. But given the flak it attracted, I can understand entirely if you don't want to dig it out again!

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Isabeau - SSP that my fic in which Faramir and Eowyn are sneaking around looking for a place to make out and, as you suggested, run into Eomer and Lothiriel also sneaking around looking for a place to make out is now posted here. A big thanks for the suggestion - I would love to have your feedback on how I have handled that scene.

Hi Liz--

I'll go take a look and post on your forum, but it may be this evening before I get to it. You're very welcome for the suggestion.

 

 

Re: first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

PS Lindorien - do you not already have an entry for this challenge in the poem you originally submitted for "Happy Faramir"? Which I thought was hilarious. But given the flak it attracted, I can understand entirely if you don't want to dig it out again!

Gracious! No! I'm still trying to get the smell of Tar and Burnt Feathers out of the upholstery. That poem shall lay by the side of the road for this one and be put to other realworld uses.

Might be able to come up with another one though. I shall make him single and her self-actualized.

Celeborn sidles up and whispers in Lindorien's ear.

"No kidding?" Lindorien's eyes widen. "She saw it in her MIRROR? Oh dear. Was she terribly angry? Really?" Resumes frantic scribbling. "Uh huh...uh huh...feather boas?" Lindorien stops, eyeing Celeborn suspiciously. "You must mean silk stockings. Nylon is a modern-day invention."


 

 

Re: first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

Celeborn sidles up and whispers in Lindorien's ear.

"No kidding?" Lindorien's eyes widen. "She saw it in her MIRROR? Oh dear. Was she terribly angry? Really?" Resumes frantic scribbling. "Uh huh...uh huh...feather boas?" Lindorien stops, eyeing Celeborn suspiciously. "You must mean silk stockings. Nylon is a modern-day invention."


Mmmph. WHERE is E.D when you need her?

*stuffs hankies*


Hey, I like this brothel idea. I'd like to see how an elf reacts to the concept of one. Wow. A Silm-based brothel fic. More mmmph.

*thinks thinks thinks*


I like the Paris idea muchly, too. But romance is not my thang, unfortunately, not unless it's male-male, high elven, and slammish poetry.

Edit: *rereads* But romance is not my thang, unfortunately, not unless it's male-male, high elven, and slammish poetry.

And that can't be a Paris fic because...?

*gleam*


 

 

Re: first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

Hey, I like this brothel idea. I'd like to see how an elf reacts to the concept of one. Wow. A Silm-based brothel fic. More mmmph.

**wonders about elvens brothels**

**sees smoke rising as Nol thinks**

**runs for fire extinguisher**

Lindorien stops, taking delivery of a dispatch from Imladris. Strange, she thinks, it bears the seal of that Elf-Chick who did in Glorfindel for a few moments of movie magic and silly sharp-sword-at-throat games with boyfriend.

Lindorien reads, eyes widening even further. "Gracious!" She exclaims. "Although," she muses the girl is 3,000 years old, I guess she's got a few spiders hiding in her tree. This probably explains why she had it in for Glorfindel in the first place."

sees edit and edits her own:

Can't be Paris-fic because we are supposed to be looking for hetsex. Put one of them elves in a grass-skirt however, and perhaps we can talk.

 

 

Re: first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

Edit: *rereads* But romance is not my thang, unfortunately, not unless it's male-male, high elven, and slammish poetry.

And that can't be a Paris fic because...?


Or for that matter, a brothel fic. Who says that all brothels mean het?

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Hm...no brothel story immediately springs to (at) me, but adult challenges sound like fun.

I swore I'd never write anything even remotely adult rated - but somehow instead of working on my "Aragorn beats up Corsairs" fic this morning, I ended up writing an "Aragorn has sex with Denethor" fic.

Oops. How could that have happened?


;),
Elemmire

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

"Aragorn has sex with Denethor" fic.

Who'd want to have sex with Denethor?


 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Almost no one. I had to get him somewhat drunk first...and he rather regreted it afterwards.


Elemmire

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Who'd want to have sex with Denethor?

Oh, I'd imagine he was pretty hot property even before he set himself on fire. I mean, if thousands of screaming fangirls are right, Boromir and Faramir are very desirable, and they had to get those genes from somewhere. And he was Numenorean, so before he started using the palantir he would have resembled men much younger than him, physically, I think. Remember that he married a twenty-five-year-old when he was fifty. That suggests

(a) He had something going for him to attract her at that age

(b) He had lots of time for past lovers. An Aragorn/Denethor fic could be interesting. So could any other number of pairings.

Am thinking... so you will not bow to this Ranger of the North, but will you kneel to him?

All right, this post is probably going the wrong direction entirely!

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

All right, this post is probably going the wrong direction entirely!

This entire thread went out of control some time ago.

I'll just BET Aragorn regretted it after, Elenmire.

Okay -- my brothel fic is almost done, so, in for a penny, in for a pound. Count me in.

It covers all categories:

role of courtesans
economics
family run-ins
matters of state

hmmm...did I forget anything?

No one escapes.

Especially the author.

I am likely to go down in flames.

Just like Denethor.

So count me in.

Is that enough to get it up, so to speak, on the Challenge List?

Then could everybody start thinking about Paris and other french things?

Lindorien

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I swore I'd never write anything even remotely adult rated - but somehow instead of working on my "Aragorn beats up Corsairs" fic this morning, I ended up writing an "Aragorn has sex with Denethor" fic.

Oops. How could that have happened?


So--where is it?

As for me, the brothel fic I thought I was going to write did a sea-change on the way to work today, and it's not about the sex anymore at all. And my muse is officially jump-started. Thank you all very much........



 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Who'd want to have sex with Denethor?

Oh, I'd imagine he was pretty hot property even before he set himself on fire. I mean, if thousands of screaming fangirls are right, Boromir and Faramir are very desirable, and they had to get those genes from somewhere.


Absolutely, Marta. And also don't forget that power itself can be an aphrodisiac....

Oh darn - my "Denethor's sexuality" fic has just acquired another angle (and probably several more chapters).... Note to self: never, never, never put a silly little throwaway line in a fic just to get a cheap laugh. It will always come back to bite you

Anyway, Marta and Dwim - I think we have at five people signed up - Isabeau, Lady Aranel, Lindorien, Marta and me - so is it time to turn this into an official challenge and sort out some words?

Cheers, Liz

PS Isabeau

I'll go take a look and post on your forum, but it may be this evening before I get to it.

Thanks - and whenever you have a chance is fine I can wait (no, I'm not a feedback junkie... not me, honest *looks around for next fix*)

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Yeppers! Let 'er rip!

My brothel fic is done. It awaits a port of entry.

oh dear.

Lindorien

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Am thinking... so you will not bow to this Ranger of the North, but will you kneel to him?

OMG. You've just managed to squick the unsquickable.

~Lady Aranel~

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Anyway, Marta and Dwim - I think we have at five people signed up - Isabeau, Lady Aranel, Lindorien, Marta and me - so is it time to turn this into an official challenge and sort out some words?

Absolutely. Now, what brave soul will volunteer to propose a challenge description?

Hmm. Guess that's my job, isn't it? Drat. I will work on one and try to get a proposed description up tonight.

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Am thinking... so you will not bow to this Ranger of the North, but will you kneel to him?

OMG. You've just managed to squick the unsquickable.


I do what I can. Just so as I don't have to write the thing, I'll plot suggestions into other peoples' minds all day long.

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Remember that he married a twenty-five-year-old when he was fifty. That suggests

(a) He had something going for him to attract her at that age


{Snorts loudly}

I don't think so--it's called a political marriage of convenience!

And I always figured the brothers got their attractiveness from their mother's side, anyway--look at Imrahil.

Regina

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

(a) He had something going for him to attract her at that age

{Snorts loudly}

I don't think so--it's called a political marriage of convenience!


Hehe... you take your meaning, I'll take mine.

Possibly a political marriage from her end, but Denethor at least loved her (so says the appendices).

Marta

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

And I always figured the brothers got their attractiveness from their mother's side, anyway--look at Imrahil.

May I just point out (from Appendix A) "Boromir, five years the elder, beloved by his father, was like him in face and pride, but in little else. Rather he was a man after the sort of King Earnur of old, taking no wife and delighting chiefly in arms; fearless and strong but caring little for lore, save the tales of old battles. Faramir the younger was like him in looks but otherwise in mind. For he read the hearts of men as shrewdly as his father, but what he read moved him sooner to pity than to scorn."

So Tolkien says all three looked very alike....

Since my current nuzgul (part of which is an answer to the brothel challenge) is hassling me to write about Denethor's sexuality, please don't disabuse me of the notion that a younger Denethor looked like Faramir

Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

"'Denethor II was a proud man, tall, valiant, and more kingly than any man that had appeared in Gondor for many lives of men; and he was wise also, and far-sighted, and learned in lore. Indeed he was as like to Thorongil as to one of nearest kin, "

Appendices, ROTK

Avon

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Okay, okay!! *swiping ineffectually at the Nuzgul hanging off her shoulder whispering lasciviously in her ear* I'll bite!

PWP, het, adult, brothel, other races, humourous undertones...mmhhhhmmm..... let's see...

.....first I need to ask Grond if I can borrow Captain Shagrat...... he he he...

Enros

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Avon

Thanks for that quote as well. I think that proves Denethor was probably extremely attractive before his marriage. And, of course, some women like a man who's a bit of a bastard....

Enros

Yay, yay and thrice yay! Not least because you have just saved the challenge from being almost exclusively "Faramir and/or Legolas visit a brothel". Very much looking forward to your entry.

Marta

Are you struggling with the wording for the challenge or just struggling for time to put it together? If words, feel free to e-mail me off list with what you have and I will try and help.

Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Who'd want to have sex with Denethor?

Finduilas. Probably half the female population of Minas Tirith when he was a young man. Power is a heady aphrodesiac, as is wealth. So what if he's less than conscientious about making sure his partner enjoys it? For the interested, I've got a very slow and complicated Aragorn/Denethor fic in beta called "Star and Stone". May drive you insane before it's finished, though.

Ok, five vic... volunteers. Tanaqui, which is the prompt you want to use and the title? E-mail me and I'll get it entered later today/tonight.

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Hrm. I'm being nibbled by a hobbitish adult nuzgul, but it wouldn't involve a brothel; FWIW, I don't believe the Shire was either urban or wealthy (in the purely monetary sense) enough to support one.

I'm interested in seeing the final form of the challenge so I can tell whether my idea might be shoehorned into the parameters.

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

I'm being nibbled by a hobbitish adult nuzgul, but it wouldn't involve a brothel; FWIW, I don't believe the Shire was either urban or wealthy (in the purely monetary sense) enough to support one.

I would agree; having started my story last night, my take will be that there are enough lusty dairymaids & loose lasses that one isn't necessary. But the hobbits are curious to see a brothel when Faramir explains what they are, as well as being anxious for some available female company; hence their decision to visit.

Regina

 

 

Re: Occasional adult challenge?

Forodwaith and Regina

Well, one of my suggestions way back up the thread (before we all got distracted by the question of who would have sex with Denethor!) was to find out how hobbits' love of the "good life" relates to paid-for sex. So Regina is definitely answering that question.

Forodwaith - not sure whether the challenge will fit your story, but I think we are essentially looking at attitudes towards paid-for sex or sex as a commercial transaction, not necessarily just in a brothel. But how to word that....

Dwim

Marta and I are working on this off list and one of should get back to you later today with something.... which takes into account the many and complicated ideas in this thread

Cheers, Liz

 

 

Re: first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

And that can't be a Paris fic because...?

Marta said:
Or for that matter, a brothel fic. Who says that all brothels mean het?


All brothels don't mean het. Unfortunately, I doubt high-elven types would mean anything to do with brothels. It's very sad. They'd be so gorgeous in those debauched settings.

Lindorien, Paris fic may mean hetsex, but what stops a currently homosexual and happy elf look back upon his once heterosexual love? Apart from half a mile of proper and morally righteous canon, that is?

 

 

Re: first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

Lindorien, Paris fic may mean hetsex, but what stops a currently homosexual and happy elf look back upon his once heterosexual love? Apart from half a mile of proper and morally righteous canon, that is?

Oh, Nol! I said hetsex because somewhere along the line people were talking about there not being a lot of good hetsex out there. I think I was one of them. Your idea sounds fine. I know you shall make it wonderful. So I don't care. It can be hetsex or not. Or perhaps it should have some element of hetsex? That might be nice. Make a requirement that SOMETHING be hetsex about the fic.

As you well know, my entry treads the fine line regarding that mile of proper and morally righteous canon.

 

 

Re: first chapter for brothel nuzgul up

"Payment Due," chapter two of "Summer Nights," is up. Feel free to read and comment at my forum.

Still no adult contect yet (sorry, guys!)

Marta

 

 

potential challenge description

Here's the challenge description that Liz and I have worked out. Any suggestions?

Middle-earth is full of cultures, each with varying takes on brothels, courtesans, and the like. How acceptable were they? That probably varies from culture to culture. How would the brothel's place in society be different in Erebor, where men far outnumbered women, than in the Shire, where most hobbits were married. What about Orcs? Where raping and pillaging is the norm, is there still a place for the brothel (or *is* raping and pillaging the norm)? And how did the Ents deal with the long absence of the Entwives and the Dwarves with the fact that so many of them remained unmarried?

Remember, for added fun (like you need that with this subject!), there's no rule that says brothels must be heterosexual. Stories dealing with courtesans and other professional lovers which are not necessarily set in a brothel are also welcome. Maybe two characters' very different attitudes to "professional lovers" have far-reaching consequences for the Ring War?

In short, any story related to a brothel, prostitute, or other type of professional lover is welcome. Stories need not be serious -- comedy, PWP, or anything else you can dream up is welcome.

Marta

 

 

Re: potential challenge description

Here's the challenge description that Liz and I have worked out. Any suggestions?

Yeah, I gotta suggestion. How about we get this puppy posted up and take it out for a walk?

Sorry, been watching old gangster films.

Lindorien

 

 

Re: potential challenge description

Yeah, I gotta suggestion. How about we get this puppy posted up and take it out for a walk?

Sorry, been watching old gangster films.


I'll give it another hour or two and pass it along to Dwim, then. At this point, I'm with you.

Marta

 

 

Re: potential challenge description

Well my, now underway, story is going to fit right in there so I'm happy with it.

Although in a way I am a little disappointed about the 'not necessarily heterosexual' bit as I had hoped, along with some others, that this challenge might help generate some good hetfic. I hope it still will but I imagine a number of people will go down the more (dare I say it?!) socially acceptable route of slash.

Enros

 

 

Re: potential challenge description

Hi Enros

Well my, now underway, story is going to fit right in there so I'm happy with it.

Excellent!

Although in a way I am a little disappointed about the 'not necessarily heterosexual' bit as I had hoped, along with some others, that this challenge might help generate some good hetfic. I hope it still will but I imagine a number of people will go down the more (dare I say it?!) socially acceptable route of slash.

Well, we did have one or two excellent slash ideas mooted that people wouldn't have written at all if the challenge had been limited to het. And I think there are already half a dozen or so het stories being planned for this that you can look forward to. As well as an Ent-sex fic (which, from what I know of it, I would hesitate to try to classify ).

Liz (who has just been through the torture of trying to write a "tasteful" het PWP and therefore feels exempt from putting much, if any, het sex in her fic)

 

 

Re: potential challenge description

I had hoped, along with some others, that this challenge might help generate some good hetfic.

Well, I'm putting in a hetfic. Whether it will be good, however, I shall have to leave to the readers to decided. (all three of them, no doubt)

Remember Enros, for more hetfic..."We'll always have Paris." I'd sure like that to have SOME element of hetsex.

Is the puppy walking yet?

Lindorien

 

 

Re: potential challenge description

Go here. Have fun!

 

 

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