Henneth Annûn Story Archive

This post is to open discussions on the 4th quarter challenge for Quickies! Authors and story ideas, come on in and let's talk.... Faramir_boromir

 

Hmm, Tough choice now, there're lots of lovely prompts to get those creative juices flowing. Atm, I find Boromir receives the Horn of Gondor from his father, or for that matter, Denethor receives it from Ecthelion most attractive! I've always wondered about that scene. It must have been one of the defining moments in Boromir's life. What about you, F_B? nrink p/s: C'mon people, this place is just swimming with nuzgul. They've all got no teeth! Pick up one today!

 

With thanks to F_B and groveling apologies to all from the brain-fried member of the Challenges Admin team: Here are the quarter four Quickies. Have at them!

 

nrink, you are a mindreader. I wasn't planning to write in this challenge, but when I read that line, I got in touch with Marta/Dwim to ask where could I sign up? And where was the discussion forum? I've already put in a placeholder for precisely the nazgul you've pointed out. It is simmering in the brain right now (starting with a dispute between Denethor and Boromir about who else should accompany them on the traditional trip for the transfer of horn from father to son. You can guess who Boromir insists should go). And yes, you are flinging nazgul with the best of them, nrink! Keep it up! F_B

 

Hey F_B, Apologies - I happily flung the nuzgul and forgot to put the challenge up. Brain-fried is the word. ;p cheers, nrink

 

OK.... I've been bitten by the groom gift one, with Beren and Celeborn. However... Would anyone care to define what a groom gift is? My thoughts: -Male equivalent of a dowry (groom's family's gift to bride's family)? -Groom's gift to bride? ~Meril

 

SSPIng my own Sourcebook for M-e weddings research article, the sources for Viking, Anglo-Saxon and other weddings of that period suggest: "The groom’s family paid a groom-gift as evidence that the groom would be able to support his wife. In some cases, the groom-gift was given to the bride’s family in “compensation”. In this case, the groom might also provide his wife with a morning-gift, presented on the morning following consummation of the wedding. In other cases, the groom-gift was given to the couple. The bride’s family paid a bride-gift or dowry which was used by the couple. The bride-gift and morning-gift provided security for the wife and her children in the event of her being widowed." Hope that helps Cheers, Liz

 

I've been thinking about the 'Elrond learns of Arwen's choice' nuzgul for two days now and I'm getting frustrated with it. In the Tale of A&A it says that Aragorn came to Lorien on his way to Rivendell, where he wanted to rest before travelling some more because he was weary. He and Arwen cleave to each other when he's on the verge of leaving. Then it goes on to say that Elrond learned of Arwen's choice and was silent, until Aragorn arrived in Rivendell. Which raises the question of who told him. Admittedly, Aragorn might not have gone straight to Rivendell, even if he wanted to, but I can't imagine anyone entrusting something so important to a letter, yet I would have thought if someone had told him - and it would be likely to be someone close to him - it would have been in the book. Hence my dilemma. Has anyone got any ideas on this one? Nic

 

Maybe Galadriel told him . . . or possibly Celeborn? What if he just knew, since he had a Ring of Power? CLF

 

Has anyone got any ideas on this one? Well, since the text is wonderfully unspecific on this point, it's really up to the writer. Yay for us, we're not out of the job yet! In a story I'm working on, I'll be having Arwen herself come to relay the news; but I don't think many options are really implausible, although I agree that a letter alone is a bit impersonal for such a heavy subject. One thing I do doubt is that anyone would tell Elrond without Arwen or Aragorn's consent -- in other words, I doubt Elladan and Elrohir would hear a rumor and run home to tell dad. (Yet even this, I'm wager, could be done convincingly with enough care.) Then there's the possibility that Elrond didn't need to be told at all, and just "knew" (I think the text reasonably allows this -- but at the same time, how would the eventual writer of the tale know he was silent unless someone was there when he learned? hmm) Sorry, if you were looking for someone to narrow things down, I'm afraid I was no help! >.< -AE

 

Those things were all pretty much what I was thinking, AE. On the one hand the text is just unspecific enough for us to decide, but just specific enough to not allow much room for manouevre. I did do a first draft of this, where Arwen tells Elrond herself but then I found myself struggling with him remaining silent, but giving Aragorn ultimatums. I'm not sure how Arwen would take that, or how he thinks she would. But I could just stop worrying about this and wait for your story Nic

 

 

I did do a first draft of this, where Arwen tells Elrond herself but then I found myself struggling with him remaining silent, but giving Aragorn ultimatums. I'm not sure how Arwen would take that, or how he thinks she would. Ooo, I know, isn't it delicious? All that angst; can you imagine what must have gone through her head on the way home (taking the scenario that Arwen brought the news), and then to finally get it out for... nothing, ziltch, silence. High drama, I tell you! But I could just stop worrying about this and wait for your story Uhm, I wouldn't advise that. -AE

 

I did do a first draft of this, where Arwen tells Elrond herself but then I found myself struggling with him remaining silent, but giving Aragorn ultimatums. I'm not sure how Arwen would take that, or how he thinks she would. Hmm, I thought that was the easy part. I don't think Barahir knew the whole truth to tell it, so I don't worry about only using the general tone and ideas, without being slavish to the minutia. And MINE is written, and being final beta-ed as we speak. Do you think the challenge managers will mind that it is about 1,100 words OVER the limit? It's about 2,600 words or 5 pages. I know it's only supposed to be three pages, but I couldn't fit it all in. Really, I tried. I had to leave out a whole bunch of stuff already. I can't make it any shorter. Gwynnyd

 

AE: All that angst; can you imagine what must have gone through her head on the way home (taking the scenario that Arwen brought the news), and then to finally get it out for... nothing, ziltch, silence. Angst is always good! I was interpreting the word silence to mean that he didn't have a rant and rave and forbid them from marrying. Or something along those lines. Gwynnyd: I don't think Barahir knew the whole truth to tell it That's a very good point, I hadn't thought of that. I suppose if Elrond and Arwen never told anyone what went on in that conversation, then Barahir wouldn't know either. And MINE is written, and being final beta-ed as we speak. Yay, excellent. I'll await it with baited breath And AE's, even if it takes longer (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to) Nic

 

Gwynnyd: I don't think Barahir knew the whole truth to tell it That's a very good point, I hadn't thought of that. I suppose if Elrond and Arwen never told anyone what went on in that conversation, then Barahir wouldn't know either. By the time Barahir was writing things down, it was definitely swinging over into 'myth' from 'history'. I think he can be trusted for the broad outlines. But, for example, in the Tale of A&A Barahir tells us: "He (Aragorn) was weary and he wished to go back to Rivendell and rest there for a while ere he journeyed into the far countries; and on his way he came to the borders of Lórien and was admitted to the hidden land by the Lady Galadriel." So he stays in Lorien and does the betrothal thing with Arwen. Is he then 'rested' enought that he doesn't want to go to Rivendell anymore and just tells Arwen, "Hey, honey, why doncha go tell Dad we're gonna get married" and wanders off again into 'far countries'? Or is it far more likely that they continued his journey to Rivendell to break the news together? So when Barahir tells us: "'When Elrond learned the choice of his daughter, he was silent, though his heart was grieved and found the doom long feared none the easier to endure. But when Aragorn came again to Rivendell he called him to him, and he said:" it looks to me like Arwen told him privately, and then he called Aragorn in after he had decided that only a double king would do for Arwen. Or even that Barahir just got it wrong and they WERE together when they told Elrond 'when Aragorn came again to Rivendell'. There's nothing, really, that implies a great gap in time between the betrothal and Aragorn showing up in Rivendell when you look at it that way. It also looks to me as if Barahir knew that Aragorn had done a lot of wandering but didn't know any kind of a timeline for when Aragorn was any place in particular. He just scatters journeys randomly throughout the years with very little regard for what was going on in the rest of the world at any given time. If I can come up with a sound political reason for Aragorn being somewhere specific when Barahir has him wandering aimlessly, I have no hesitation in thinking, "Barahir just didn't know" and forging ahead. I assume that as long as I expain my rationale for having him somewhere, the readers will buy it. Now if I could just *finish* those stories... Gwynnyd

 

Yay, excellent. I'll await it with baited breath Wait no longer! Nothing in Haste is now entered in the Quickies 4th Q Challenge for the "Elrond learns of Arwen's choice" prompt. Um, er, but it's almost twice as long as the requirements state - 5 1/4 pages, roughly 3000 words... I tried to keep it short, really I did. Challenge Managers, is that OK? Gwynnyd

 

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