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Discussing: Maglor in History

Maglor in History

Comments? Questions about ancient Sumerian culture for Maglor to encounter? Come ye all here and talk.

Challenge Manager's Note: RPF is a weird category of fic. HASA officially does not accept it, however, there have been fics which have challenged the absolute bar. For any concerned parties, this would be a good place to talk about what sort of interaction with historical figures you're going to have, and also to perhaps clarify for yourselves what constitutes RPF.

Three fics I know of that include real people, but which have not been deemed in violation of the rule, and which might prove good baselines for comparison are:

Fanfiction Lounge (CNell)
Bringing Gifts (Deborah)
An Unexpected Party (Azalais)

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Maybe I'm being naive now, but I always took RPF to refer to people who are alive today.

Finch

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

This would be where I admit I am highly fuzzy on the distinction between RPF and historical fiction. "Real people" always implies to me... well, people who aren't fictional, which covers pretty much everyone who has lived or is still living. But if that's the real definition of RPF, then cool, so long as Maglor doesn't meet Bill Clinton or Pinochet or Yo-yo Ma, we should all be fine.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Help! Should I enter a placeholder, or an empty story, or what?

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

If you've written the story, you can enter it. If you haven't, there really isn't need to enter a placeholder until closer to the deadline.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

eek ok ignorant me didn't know about the RPF ban on Henneth Annun. I thought an interesting person for Maglor to meet would be Tolkien.( not meaning to be disrespectful to the proffessor) I think it's certainly a point to explore...

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

There is another story featuring Tolkien called Reparation by Windfola, and I heartily recommend it, but no hot drinks in front of the keyboard when you read it.

I don't think anyone wants to see Tolkien made ridiculous, or put through character torture, or other ff.net crimes, but I assume that's not what's contemplated.

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

The only ban I can find is the one on Real Person Slash in the Review Criteria. As your story has nothing to do with slash and treats the Prof. with respect, I don't think there is a problem.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

The only ban I can find is the one on Real Person Slash in the Review Criteria.

Are representations of real people only addressed in the context of slash? I would like to see that equalized, i.e. not worded just in terms of slash. Although I guess this forum isn't the right place to discuss the intricacies of that.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Are representations of real people only addressed in the context of slash? I would like to see that equalized, i.e. not worded just in terms of slash.

In Submission Guidelines on the public side of HASA it says:

6. The work cannot be a Real Person Story (RPS) style work. This indicates a story where actual people's names and lives are made the subject or a significant part of the work. Author self-insertions are not considered RPS.

This does not really address distinctions between live persons and dead ones, and major historical figures. Good question.

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Dwim wrote:
This would be where I admit I am highly fuzzy on the distinction between RPF and historical fiction.

To me, the distinction lies in the tone of the works. Historical fiction is generally concerned with real people as they actaully functioned in a historical context, i.e. a story in which the collapse of the Soviet Union played an important role might feature Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev as "characters" - but they would appear in their roles as leaders of their respective countries, roles which they actually held in their real, public lives.

RPFs, on the other hand, seem to me quite different; the focus is on the real person's private life as opposed to their public one, with the author of the story often using the real person as a prop in the author's personal fantasy (usually a sexual one). To me, they seem almost a sort of "stalking", with the author assuming a familiarity with the famous person's private life that the author is not entitled to (since he/she is generally not a close friend of the famous person in question).

Ithilwen

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Sorry, I missed that part (and usually, RPS does stand for Real Person Slash).

As Dwimordene pointed out, several HASA stories have real persons in them. Maybe guideline 6 should be made more specific. It seems a bit peculiar to exclude historical figures: in itself, writing historical fiction with real persons is perfectly legal, while writing fanfiction l is not. I guess this guideline was added to exclude actor fics, but doesn't it overshoot the mark?




 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Okay I'm going to get a bit Feanorian and rlie against the "no real people" ruling when it gets in the way of creativity. One of the things I find interesting about Tolkien's myths is how they interact with "real history" and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I agree with Ithilwen, works should be judged on their quality and tone and wether they have something relevant to say, rather than there being a blanket ban on any one genre.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History - Idea for Fic.

I've just signed up for this challenge, but the idea I had wasn't strictly Maglor in History. Well, one of them wasn't.

Would a Maglor/The Fountainhead crossover count in this catergory? It is, after all, history, albeit an alternative, fictional, history. I was inspired by a piece in Joan Milligans deadjournal which featured a very Roark-like Feanor.

Otherwise, I was going to do Maglor/London/The Great Plague.

Comments?

 

 

Re: Maglor in History - Idea for Fic.

Mmm... would it be possible to have Maglor interact with someone who had absorbed Ayn Rand's (I am thinking of the right author here, yes?) philosophy so thoroughly he behaved like Rourke? Then you could have the pseudo-Rourke do the philosophizing about the world at large in which both he and Maglor find themselves, and so not have to deal with the fact that Rand's is already an alternate universe.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History - Idea for Fic.

Hmmm... I might just do the crossover anyway, and then write the Great Plague one for the challenge.

No such thing as too much Maglor.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Well, I've posted my entry, if anyone cares.

The Price of Peace

Maglor is in India (whee!) and meets the (incredible) Mohandas Gandhi.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

I'm curious. As to whether the story 'The Dreamer and the Minstrel', that I entered in the Maglor and Gandalf Nuzgul would be able to be entered in this challenge. As it is further on in history than when he was on the beach, being late third age, or whether it would not and I would have to come up with something else.
Don't ask me what though as I don't know...

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

I believe that the intent of the challenge is to put Maglor explicitly in the context of our real world history, so I think your story would not quite meet the requirements.

If you're interested in this challenge, check out the authors who have already entered it, and see whether you can glean any ideas from them as to who would be an interesting person for Maglor to meet.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

I believe that the intent of the challenge is to put Maglor explicitly in the context of our real world history, so I think your story would not quite meet the requirements.

Just checking, otherwise I would do something stupid.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Hi Aria! And thanks to Dwim for alerting me to this. Worry not people, the Silguller is here.

As Dwim said, I don't think 'The Dreamer and the Minstrel' would be appropriate for this Challenge- though it does look like it was made for the Maglor and Gandalf Nuzgul!!!


or whether it would not and I would have to come up with something else.
Don't ask me what though as I don't know...


I do hope you write something for the Challenge, though. There are many things, of course, that you could choose from. According to your profile, you're taking your GCSEs. Am I right in assuming you're British? In which case, you do have much to choose from... there's the World War approach, of course, no one has done WWII as far as I know...

I had trouble coming up with something for this Challenge, myself, because the only history I am familiar with is Singapore history.

But I did think about it, and since my parents are actually Indian migrants, and I did know something about Indian culture, and cool peeps like Mother Teresa and Gandhi came from India, it would be a good place to visit for this story.

Ahem. My point is, work with something you are familiar with or that you enjoy very much. What is your favourite time period? Which historical characters do you admire the most? How would these people react to Maglor? How would Maglor react to certain events in modern world history?

Some names from the top of my head: George Washington, Adolf Hitler... Winston Churchill, so on so forth.

And if you have any ideas yourself, share it with us! We're more than willing to help you out here.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Um, I doubt anyone here has taken the time to read it thus far, but my story 'Unblinded' has Maglor in the modern day. He hasn't met a famous figure, though.

I joined the challenge because I felt I'd met the criteria of Maglor being out of the Middle-Earth territory, but I selected 'Members Only' because it lacks a historical figure.

So I was wondering - should I just drop out of the challenge altogether? Or is it okay if I move it up to 'For Public' status? Or should I leave it as is?

Thanks for your input,
~~Vikki

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Since it has Maglor in the modern era, I'd say it fits the requirements of the Challenge. I'd leave it (and also move it to "Public" status).

Ithilwen

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

I figure that it shouldn't matter too much what status it is, since it's already published, unless you want to specifically show it as an entry to the Challenge.

BUT. The Challenge requirements are thus:

Assuming he lived, write a story in which Maglor appears later in time, some place in our history. He can witness a major historical event or perhaps meet or see a major historical figure

It's not so much that he hasn't met a historical figure, but that he hasn't partaken in anything that would, realistically, be counted as history.

Of course, I haven't read Unblinded past Chapter One (for reasons I've explained to you a long time ago, Vikki... ) so... yeah.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

It's not so much that he hasn't met a historical figure, but that he hasn't partaken in anything that would, realistically, be counted as history.

So, um, I think I'm gonna compromise, then - I'll leave the fic on 'Members Only' status for now, and then once Maglor gets in a few good swings in the War on Terrorism (which he'd better do! ), I'll shift it to 'Public' status.

Although this Nuzgul is nibbling at me, saying 'please ... write something about Maglor and Tolkien ...'

>______> Oh, dear, that could be one *heck* of a weird l'il Maglor in History fic ...

Thanks for the input!

~~Vikki

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Although this Nuzgul is nibbling at me, saying 'please ... write something about Maglor and Tolkien ...'

>______> Oh, dear, that could be one *heck* of a weird l'il Maglor in History fic ...


You mean, without putting them in WWI? Because this has been done twice already, by Ithilwen and Lipstick.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

It's not that weird, actually. In fact, as Vorondis said, it's been done before. Read Ithilwen's brilliant Chance's Strange Arithmetic to see how it's been done.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

According to your profile, you're taking your GCSEs.

Yep! And history at that...*cringes*


Am I right in assuming you're British?

You are right, though I've got bits of other cultures mixed in there somewhere I'm sure.

In which case, you do have much to choose from...

The only problem with that is the fact that there is too much to choose from and it's easy to get lost.
But I digress, one plotline I am seriously considering though is a story based in Tudor England during the time of Henry VIII, due to his many wives or, during the reign of his daughter Mary; due to her burnings in the case of religious persecution i.e catholisism verses Protestantism.
But as it stands I'm not entirely sure how to go about it,
I would also like to know what everyone thinks about it; due to the fact that he probably won't be meeting the monarchs themselves but rather knowing of their rule and his own thoughts upon them.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

I think this is very very interesting, Aria, not only due to research and historical period, but also as an exploration of religious views (Maglor's and yours) I think you should go for it! I'd love to see your take on that situation, and you'd be addressing a point at which I've wondered *a lot* lately. What would Maglor think about God and all, having dwelt in Valinor himself? Would he compare God to Eru? What would he make of the Powers? Angels? Saints? Would he dare expose his thoughts and experiences in public, or would he hide from persecution? What would he think about the King marrying and divorcing (since that is one issue that may have brought grief to his own family) Would ha make comments about that?

Oh, I'm intrigued... Good luck with the story!

Starlight
(musing whether she should have Maglor meet with Galileo, or rather Leonardo, or maybe Rome's mythological twins?)

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Hi. I was wondering if someone here could clear up something that's confusing me.

The challenge requirements state that Maglor can meet or see a major historical figure. Now, many legendary figures, such as Robin Hood, are based on actual historical people. So, here's the problem: Is Maglor allowed to meet Mr. Hood himself, or has it to be the man (I can't remember his name off the top of my head) on whom he's based?

Thanks,

E.N.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Personally I would think it would be alright, but it would be better if you asked Dwimordene about it, as I do have a tendency to get things wrong
My own is not going to have him actually meet anyone of import but he will, 'commenting' on the times. So I would have thought you would be alright, but I could be wrong.

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Starlight
(musing whether she should have Maglor meet with Galileo, or rather Leonardo, or maybe Rome's mythological twins?)

Go for it you've got me curious now. All of them would make for a good plot, so as I said go for it!!

 

 

Re: Maglor in History

Whoops! I missed this one.

Umm... Well, I suppose that, strictly speaking, it should be the man himself, but who's to say that this person would give out his identity freely? Maybe he identifies himself to Maglor in a manner like this:

Maglor: "You are a strange fellow. Who are you?"

Fellow: "Folk call me 'Robin.'"

No need to go further than that.

 

 

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