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Children of Lindórinand

maeglin - 05 Jul 09 - 1:42 PM

General Comment

Darth.  Why would the Lindas ever give up their children in the first place?  Surely they would either die fighting such evil, or flee?  I just can't see any group of Elves, and Avarin/Nandorin types least of all, passively accepting such a situation, even once.  They would no more give up their children than they would willingly (without first being tortured and made into 'thralls') serve Sauron or Morgoth.  It's also hard to imagine Celeborn implementing this 'civilizing' policy in such a heavy-handed way.  Galadriel, perhaps, but not Celeborn - he simply wouldn't allow it.

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Children of Lindórinand

Darth Fingon - 14 Aug 09 - 9:03 AM

General Comment

I have to say, I'm more than a little amazed at the negative comments this story is gathering.  Especially considering I have far worse stories that receive only praise.  Oh well.

Bel Wrote: I'm afraid that this story fails to consider what has been published about Elves, marriage and children (see The Later Quenta Silmarillion (II) in Morgoth's Ring)

It doesn't fail to consider.  It considered, and then discarded, for one important reason: as far as I see it, L&C cannot be considered absolute canon because it was not written by Elves, and not written during a time period when Elves lived in Middle-earth.  This is a text produced by a Dark Ages English mariner, which expresses his interpretation of Elvish culture.  It is therefore hearsay and about as accurate as any short essay on Asian culture written by a random American on vacation in Thailand.  I won't argue that some points are most likely valid (specifically, the ones about Elven biology), but everything else is filtered through Eriol's eyes.  Whatever he says about Elves, you have to understand that it's from his point of view, as he compares them to his own life and people in England.

And there are further problems when one takes into account that Elvish culture could have changed (and very likely did) in the thousands of years between the Third Age and when this essay was written.  Not to mention that L&C focuses very acutely on Noldorin culture on Tol Eressea.  What of the other kindreds of Elves?  Surely they have some different ideas ways of life.  Finally, consider that the Elves could have given false information in order to portray themselves more favourably to their visitor.

Bel continued: and also fails to take into account the nature of Galadriel, who Tolkien said in a letter as late as 1973 was "unstained: she had committed no evil deeds."

According to whom, though?  In her own view, and that of the dominant culture at the time, this story shows her committing no evil deeds.  Those who find her actions 'evil' are a small minority who will soon cease to exist.  As far as Galadriel understands, what she is doing is the right thing, a charitable thing: giving unfortunate children a chance for a better life through education.  Because this story is told from the POV of one of the affected Silvans, of course it's full of anti-Galadriel-and-Celeborn rhetoric.  Remember, everything that Targol says about them is not necessarily true: those are only his opinions on events.  He thinks that G&C are taking the children becaue they want to destroy Silvan culture, but we never see G&C's actual reasoning behind their actions.  If the story were told from Haldir's POV, things would read very differently, and G&C would by no means seem like villains.  They'd still be making a mistake, and going about their business very poorly, but not for evil purposes.

Further: Ascribing what is effectively modern human cultural and "racial" cleansing to Elves, especially to Elves of this period who would have lived through two pride-wrought, world-wrenching sunderings of life and land, is not canon - it's AU and should be marked as such.

In a narrow view of canon, perhaps.  Not in mine.  By my standards, an AU is a story that explicitly changes canon fact (not canon interpretation; this is important) for the purpose of exploring a blatant 'what if' scenario:  what if Sauron had regained the Ring, what if Feanor had lived, what if the Elves had never left Cuiviénen.  This story is not an AU; it does not contradict any irrefutable canon fact. It's merely an unpopular and controversial gapfiller.

I also think we have very different views on what is 'canon'.  Because I like to make things as difficult as possible for myself while at the same time increasing the odds that random readers will hate my work, I tend to follow Tolkien's earlier drafts.  In fact, a good percentage of my personal canon interpretation is BoLT-based.  Not only does this mean that I make different choices than most people on such important topics as the number of children Fingon had (two), it also means that my stories are significantly darker than the usual standard.  In the earlier drafts, Arda was a considerably darker and bloodier place than it eventually became.  Have a look at Makar and Measse, or the story of Morgoth and Arien, or the older tales of Eol and Aredhel.  I find these stories to be far more interesting than the sterile 'noble Elf' ideal that shows up later, after Tolkien did a mass PGification of his Legendarium.

Finally: And it's an AU that I find to be so perverse and repellent that it's going to be a long time before I risk looking at another one of Darth's stories.

Whatever you do, don't read any of my Glorfindel arc.  I didn't label that one as AU either, and it's epic badfic about Glorfindel being Fingon's underage, drug-addicted, incestuous love-slave.  The first story in the series won an award for 'Worst Character Assassination', and subsequent installments only go downhill from there.  I even went so far as to write Glorfindel of Rivendell and Glorfindel of Gondolin as two separate people, who actually meet in one of the chapters.

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Children of Lindórinand

Agape4Gondor - 15 Aug 09 - 9:03 AM

General Comment

I think upon Elros and Elrond and Eluréd and Elurín.

Need further be said of Galadriel's people?

This story was harrowing and horrifying - but I have always wondered at the regime that so affronted the Silvan Elves, forcing many of them to leave...

Well done.

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